5dimes crediting back my losses

Quote: WizardofEngland

If the casino in question had the use of the Wizards service, I dare say they would of avoided this mess.
Instead they think they can save a few dollars by not needing someone like him.
Well now they pay. Through the nose.

If they don't pay, they need to blacklisted, no argument. The guy beat them fair and square.

Actually they do advertise that he audited their bonus casino, although it was back in 2005 or something.

Quote: SOOPOO

I'm not sure how i feel about this. The game obviously had its pay table mis set by a gargantuan amount. There was no real chance the player could ever lose after any reasonable number of hands. The player stopped playing at a time when he just surmised that he would not be paid if the amount owed him by the casino was higher, or else he would have continued infinitely. It seems he was able to make a few thousand an hour pretty safely. Let's say the table was even more in the players advantage, that the player had won a million dollars that night Or 10 million dollars. Does anyone here think that the casino should pay the $10 million? Let me ask another hypothetical..... let's say you are playing online roulette and the first 4 spins are 00. You next bet a dollar on 00 and it wins. Again. Now you bet $10 on 00. And it wins. Again.. So there is something wrong with the program and you have identified the result will always be 00. How long and for how much money do you think you should be 'allowed' to play this obviously flawed game?
Someone implied there is some arbitration type occurrence that can occur. I think if I was an arbitrator for the guy who did not get paid his 32k on the flawed VP machine, I would have the casino give him $1000 and a letter of apology.
Can you chime in, Wiz, if you were the arbitrator, what would you rule?

It wasn't miss-set and if they try claiming that after the fact they are lying. Online casinos do this all the time. They come up with a promotion that is ill thought out then don't want to pay when they get nailed. BetFair got rogued a few months back when they got killed on something that was their fault. 5 Dimes brags about having unique games (which evidently they create themselves) with favorable pay tables. Obviously they didn't mean for it to be this good for the player but why should the player get penalized because they are stupid? Say you see a 4/3 Jacks or Better machine. Nobody in their right mind would play such a shitty paytable. But you sit down and lose a few thousand. Then you do the math and realize how bad the game was. Would you have a right to your money back?

Quote: Wizard

The player was told he was not allowed on any Harrah's property. I think an exemption was later granted to let him play in the WSOP at the Rio. There is a thread at another forum about it here.

I'm pretty sure RB is allowed back in now and not just for the WSOP.

Ok here it is, the settlement. I really don't get this guy Tony, he knows it's going to be posted so why act like this? Think I'll just get out of all this. Relatively new to internet sportsbooks and got an UNSIGNED check for 5k from another well known and respected book. They took care of it quickly, but come on! Anyway, here is the chat session.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Andy'
Andy: Hello. How may I assist you today?
clark: Hi may I speak with Tony please?
Andy: Just a moment please
clark: ok
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Tony'.
You are now chatting with 'Tony'
Tony: greetings
clark: hi
Tony: allow me a moment to pull up your account
clark: ok
Tony: ok, i need to confirm the amount you lost on the game in question
Tony: one moment
clark: $7231
clark: oh ok
Tony: i show $7029.50
clark: oh
clark: ok well thats possible
Tony: now its a matter if you want that amount, or you want to negotiate an amount that we agree upon to keep your account open
clark: I would like that amount, and you can bar me from ever playing video poker again if thats what you want
Tony: we will be closing your account
Tony: completely
clark: May I ask why?
clark: Nevermind
Tony: we honored all the winnings from other players other than the winnings derived from using robot players
clark: I was prepared to reason but I think id rather just get out of this industry
clark: You arent seriously suggesting I am being unfair are you
Tony: for what i deem recreational players, I felt the need to make them not feel "mishandled" in the situation
clark: You know I give you a lot of action and it fair
Tony: yes, actually i am
clark: its
Tony: but if you feel the need to press the issue, i'd rather handle this in a proper manner and be rid of you
clark: I understand
Tony: as if i had not given anyone anything, i would have been far better off
Tony: and you would be receiving nothing
Tony: as all other players that won playing this game had their winnings honored
Tony: and its clear you have no issue playing gave that were at or slightly above the 100% mark
clark: Not to disrespect, but I had and have no way of knowing that
Tony: i personally think you should have been happy with "half"
Tony: and your account open
Tony: but the choice lies in your hands
clark: And feel I shouldnt be excluded because I hit four deuces on 25 hands and got a lucky share of royal flushes
clark: I feel like i'm at a used car lot
Tony: the world is always up for negotiation
Tony: you asked what i thought "fair" was
Tony: and i told you
clark: Tony just give me the 7029.50
Tony: not a problem
Tony: how do you want your account settled?
clark: After looking at my sportsbook action you seriously dont want me there?
clark: What are my options?
Tony: someone who's willing to take $7029.50 in money they lost, when we honored all the "non-robot" winnings is just greedy
Tony: your options *************** payouts and cashier's checks fed-ex
Tony: the max on the cashier's checks is $3000 per check
clark: Cashier's checks will be fine
clark: Please just credit my account and I will make the withdrawals.
Tony: ok, one will be processed at least every monday until your balance is settled
Tony: your account will be blocked
clark: How about I take $7000 and u still take my sports action
Tony: so all transactions will be handled by accounting until your balance is zero
Tony: wow, giving up $29.50
Tony: how kind of you
clark: What do you propose
Tony: and i'm called the greedy one
Tony: nice one
Tony: "half"
clark: I didn't do anything wrong here
Tony: and neither did i
Tony: as you and all the others that were credited really have $0 coming to them
clark: You said you were paying back people, you said you would pay me back, and then said you wouldn't because I was ahead overall and a good player.
Tony: isn't that my choice of who i want to "take care of"
Tony: some people get better bonuses than others
Tony: so people get huge cash back awards
Tony: *some people
clark: We have a different definition for bonus then
Tony: i felt a need to make sure a long list of clients were taken care of
Tony: you were not on that list
clark: because I'm a winner
clark: *winning*
Tony: but it was mistakenly reported that "all" were going to get this cancellation of lost wagers
Tony: absolutely correct
Tony: you're "net ahead"
clark: what a sin
Tony: and its not $29.50 you're ahead
clark: I didn't sign up to be behind
Tony: and i'm not keeping you around if you want "it all"
clark: You're an interesting guy Tony
Tony: in the end, there will be only a few offshore outfits left, and you won't be playing at this one
clark: If you predict as well as you run a casino I wouldn't bet on it
clark: Sorry
clark: I shouldn't make this personal
Tony: i'm making it personal
clark: Yes Tony that's fine just pay me in checks
Tony: i didn't ask for your opinion
Tony: but if you want to go there, i think i'm slightly more qualified to know who's going to be left and who's not
Tony: but of course with all your forum knowledge, and incredible mathematical skills, you have to be far more qualified to make such predictions
Tony: account is closed
clark: $7029 plus $16,939 balance
Tony: credit will be done
Tony: glad to be rid of you
Tony: correct
Tony: i'd wish you luck, but since you're so smart, you don't need it
Tony: so "good day"
clark: Please don't make me have to pursue this more
clark: Ok Tony
clark: Later
Tony: your next check will be issued on monday, as you already had a check this week sent

As for people who say I'm lucky to have gotten what I did, I didn't know anything until I got the message, I should have settled for less and stayed, etc. this is my thinking.

I went into this knowing 5dimes offers the best odds on sports usually and I didn't want to lose them, so I was open to some reasonable negotiation. This doesn't mean I don't feel I was entitled to the full amount, but I was weighing it against future bets I could make there that had better odds than other books. Somewhere in that conversation I just became disgusted and realized I didn't want to be dealing with this book, or maybe even this industry.

I don't know Tony, all I can do is go by what he has said and done.
He said he was paying everyone back on this game that lost. Not true.
He said he was confiscating winnings from Zabula(?) for bot play and other players received their winnings. Tackleberry (I think that's his name) got screwed there for being a winner on another incorrectly payout scheduled game, not because of using a bot. Sound familiar? I play these games and win or lose 5,10,20k. You think if I won 15k on this game he would have paid me but not Tackleberry?

From his statements and actions I have no reason to believe I could ever have won at this game, only lost. That's why I get my money back. Maybe he paid some people who won a few hundred dollars each, I don't know, but the shit hits the fan when something happens like a Tackleberry.

And who cares about me being ignorant of the problem until I received the message? What kind of logic is that? Lets say somebody is stealing one of your utilities for free and you pay for it on your bill. You never knew the difference until someone alerted you about it. Do you do nothing?

That is breathtaking. Is anyone here a Massachusetts resident? Someone should send this story to Barney Frank as an example of how totally hosed players can get with unregulated online casinos.

I'm absolutely shocked you're getting paid. Good for you. Again, I personally don't think you probably should but that's just my opinion. I'm always happy to see the player beat the house. I don't get why you gave Tony a hard time, the guy is an asshole and you're going to have to wait weeks for all those checks. I would have been pretty damn polite until they were all cashed. I also don't get why you care about playing there again, overall Tony seems like scum and he's running the joint. There are a million outs, who needs 5 Dimes. Again, congrats on getting your money back.

It's unreal reading these threads on SBR. First off, I've lost respect for SBR in general. Unless 5 Dimes rating drops considerably then they have proven themselves just as corrupt as Casinomeister. Second, these donks posting over there are complete idiots. Blathering on about "shot takers" lol. What the hell is a shot taker? Someone who looks for opportunities where they have an edge? Seriously, people like this "Dark Horse" poster amaze me. It's a wonder he's able to type and breathe at the same time.

Quote: JimMorrison

I don't get why you gave Tony a hard time.

How was I giving him a hard time?

Quote: clarkacal

How was I giving him a hard time?

I'm not saying I disagree with you but in my experiences these guys are assholes and provoking them at all could lose you your deal. I wouldn't have said a few of the comments below. But it worked out and again congrats.


clark: I feel like i'm at a used car lot

clark: How about I take $7000 and u still take my sports action
Tony: so all transactions will be handled by accounting until your balance is zero
Tony: wow, giving up $29.50
Tony: how kind of you

clark: If you predict as well as you run a casino I wouldn't bet on it
clark: Sorry
clark: I shouldn't make this personal

Yeah, you're probably right, especially with the amount of money were talking. Tony has a way of chatting with you that makes you want to call him on his attitude. I went into it with polite intentions but couldn't help myself a few times.

Didn't you find it funny how he insisted I was being unfair and greedy but seemed to want me to take the deal so I would continue playing there?

Quote: clarkacal

Yeah, you're probably right, especially with the amount of money were talking. Tony has a way of chatting with you that makes you want to call him on his attitude. I went into it with polite intentions but couldn't help myself a few times.

Didn't you find it funny how he insisted I was being unfair and greedy but seemed to want me to take the deal so I would continue playing there?

Yeah he's obviously not playing with a full deck. Total scum bag. But as long as he keeps the payoffs flowing to SBR he'll keep his A+ rating and keep making money off all the donkeys out there.

I thought this line from the SBR rating was pretty funny after reading that dialog - "Customer Service:
5 Dimes CS representatives have forged a reputation of being very professional and cooperative on the phone."

Quote: gofaster87

I thought this line from the SBR rating was pretty funny after reading that dialog - "Customer Service:
5 Dimes CS representatives have forged a reputation of being very professional and cooperative on the phone."

Ironically Tony won't talk over the phone, only chat sessions.

Hey I'm getting my money, I should probably just keep quiet now.

Regarding the Tackleberry dispute, I communicated with 5 Dimes management about it. They say that afterward the player apologized for being too greedy with the obvious error on the part of the casino. For those who don't know, he turned a $50 deposit into $32,470 in a video poker game with an incorrect pay table, resulting in an expected return of 390%. 5 Dimes goes onto say that the player agreed to a package of free play with pay out restrictions in lieu of the $32,470.

Although I don't know the details of the compromise, and have heard only one side, I am inclined to accept this resolution and drop the matter.

Quote: Wizard

Regarding the Tackleberry dispute, I communicated with 5 Dimes management about it. They say that afterward the player apologized for being too greedy with the obvious error on the part of the casino. For those who don't know, he turned a $50 deposit into $32,470 in a video poker game with an incorrect pay table, resulting in an expected return of 390%. 5 Dimes goes onto say that the player agreed to a package of free play with pay out restrictions in lieu of the $32,470.

Although I don't know the details of the compromise, and have heard only one side, I am inclined to accept this resolution and drop the matter.

The package was a 1% freeplay($320) with a 17.5x rollover.

Seems it is coming out some other winnings on the 112% game have been confiscated, one case in particular was 9k. Maybe there was suspicion of bot use again, I'm not sure. I know when I was playing that game I felt like a bot, the strategy was so easy. I played around 1200 hands/hr, which was what zabala played, and lost his winnings because of bot accusations. Scary

Quote: Wizard

Regarding the Tackleberry dispute, I communicated with 5 Dimes management about it. They say that afterward the player apologized for being too greedy with the obvious error on the part of the casino. For those who don't know, he turned a $50 deposit into $32,470 in a video poker game with an incorrect pay table, resulting in an expected return of 390%. 5 Dimes goes onto say that the player agreed to a package of free play with pay out restrictions in lieu of the $32,470.

Although I don't know the details of the compromise, and have heard only one side, I am inclined to accept this resolution and drop the matter.

I don't buy the incorrect paytable nonsense. Yes, I'm sure they didn't plan on having a 390% game but I think it was due to error on their part with the math not inputting the paytable wrong. From what I understand the website showed the game with the exact same paytable so if it was a mistake it would have been made in two different places which is inexcusable to me.