A regulated online casino seized $100k plus from me. What can I do?

Quote: smurgerburger

To me it doesn't sound like a malfunction at all, I don't know why people are entertaining that idea. It sounds like the vendor of the online slot coded it in such a way that it's +EV off the top in some way they didn't intend. link to original post

This. I've written extensively about slot malfunctions, covering every single case I could find. A malfunction is when the machine says or implies that you won when you really didn't. If you legitimately won according to the game rules, that is NOT a malfunction.

Here's how it works:

✅ Game says you have a winning hand/round/spin when you really don't. Classic malfunction.

✅ Game pays you more than the paytable. Classic malfunction. This includes mistakes with converting denominations.

❌ Game has a player edge because it was designed that way. NOT a malfunction. It's not a malfunction when the game operates according to its rules. But did that really happen here? It's hard for that kind of game to pass regulatory scrutiny.

? Game logic doesn't match game rules. This is an edge case. Let's say it's a blackjack game but because of bad coding it never picks 4s. It's likely that regulators would call that a malfunction, because the game deviated from the rules that were approved, but there's a chance they might rule the other way. There probably aren't enough precedents to make it clear.

My advice: If your case is one described as a malfunction above, then stop. It's a malfunction, you have no case.

If it's *not* a malfunction, then alert the media. Then lawyers will probably come out of the woodwork to try to take your case, solving your problem of not being able to get a contingency lawyer. Also, the casino might be more willing to settle once a spotlight is shined on them.

If your case is a malfunction as described above, there are lots of people on this forum who could be expert witnesses, if they're willing. DrRich and CrystalMath come to mind. I offer as well but my slot resumé is not nearly as long as theirs. I have done slot math professionally and I can speak knowledgeably about dozens of cases because I'm the only person on the whole Internet who has covered all of them.

Thanks. This was not a malfunction as described above. I think just saying accurately that the game's RNG, functions and paytable operated properly covers all of your scenario's. The game did operate according to its rules.

I'm surprised no one has guessed. I mean that's not why I'm here. I could explain it in 5 seconds. I don't think that there are many online players here. Maybe it's just cause I'm a degenerate and I try out games and try to think of ways to beat it (whether it's +ev or not). For instance, there is an online blackjack game I play. Sometimes when you press hit there is a slight pause before it deals the next card on the players hand. This means the next card either busts you or you dealt to 21 either way ending your hand. I don't know of a way to profit from that but it's something I noticed.

I have now tried contacting close to 50 lawyers, some multiple times. These weren't detailed messages that would scare them away. It was just a simply "an online casino seized a significant balance from me and I'm looking for representation". 47 never called back or they emailed back that they don't do this work. One wanted $25k upfront plus 20% plus expenses. The other just wanted to bill at $450 an hour, $5000 minimum.

I don't think media attention would help. I don't think I could explain my case in a way that the public would understand. I think I would do better in a structured setting.

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.

Have you changed your approach dealing with online casinos. Seems logical, but thought I'd ask anyway.

Quote: Sandybestdog

I don't think media attention would help. I don't think I could explain my case in a way that the public would understand. I think I would do better in a structured setting. link to original post

Media attention would definitely help. Remember, I write about this kind of thing, I've reviewed dozens of articles, and it's rare that there's any decent level of detail, because the reporter has no clue. All they really give in the article the the idea that "casino won't pay out to a player". Even if they include some details and they flub them, it doesn't matter, the article isn't the court case. The article is just how you draw attention to the case, and wind up with a contingency lawyer. Use ChatGPT to craft a clear and coherent message to the news desk and send that. You're out $100k, you have nothing to lose here.

Quote: Sandybestdog

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.
link to original post

Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time. Lawyers do not help.

In this scenario: you have probably lost your money. In my experience with such things endless persistence and threats sometimes pay off over time. If they believe you can cost them more in negative publicity than they stole from you they may give it back. I'd give them exact details of the number of forums and warnings you will give out about them. The problem is that the amount in this case is large, and they sound like they are having financial difficulties. So you are going to have to make it clear you will cost them a lot of money.

You can actually cost them a lot of money. If someone does a search and your comment that they scam people comes up it WILL hurt them. That's the only leverage you have. Whether that will work is speculative.

Quote: DougGander

Quote: Sandybestdog

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.
link to original post

Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time. Lawyers do not help.

In this scenario: you have probably lost your money. In my experience with such things endless persistence and threats sometimes pay off over time. If they believe you can cost them more in negative publicity than they stole from you they may give it back. I'd give them exact details of the number of forums and warnings you will give out about them. The problem is that the amount in this case is large, and they sound like they are having financial difficulties. So you are going to have to make it clear you will cost them a lot of money.

You can actually cost them a lot of money. If someone does a search and your comment that they scam people comes up it WILL hurt them. That's the only leverage you have. Whether that will work is speculative.
link to original post

Sounds like a good idea. Extortion always does until …..

Quote: rxwine

Have you changed your approach dealing with online casinos. Seems logical, but thought I'd ask anyway.
link to original post

I'm not sure in what way you mean but no I haven't. I still play online. You know during covid the online casino's and sportsbooks were just giving away money. I mean you had to work it but it was there. It's taking me awhile but I'm realizing the edge just isn't there anymore.

One thing that really needs to be called out especially online, is the deception by these sites of player perks and VIP programs. It's rare for any of these sites to actually close your account but a few now have sent emails saying I am excluded from promos. Some of these are places I'm still a lifetime loser at. I'm not talking about profit boosts or something that's available to everyone. I mean, here is our vip program, play this and you get these benefits. But once you reach those perks if they don't like your action, they just take it away, especially online. It's very deceptive. I've also heard stories on podcasts of online sportsbooks giving people sports tickets and dinners and then literally the day of they say oh your action is not what we're looking for we're taking that away. Caesars 7 Stars is 150k tier credits. By last Summer I had over 400k tier credits from online play. My account said 7 stars pending for months but they never gave it to me. Now my account reset for the year and now I'm only diamond with 2000 tier credits.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: DougGander

Quote: Sandybestdog

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.
link to original post

Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time. Lawyers do not help.

In this scenario: you have probably lost your money. In my experience with such things endless persistence and threats sometimes pay off over time. If they believe you can cost them more in negative publicity than they stole from you they may give it back. I'd give them exact details of the number of forums and warnings you will give out about them. The problem is that the amount in this case is large, and they sound like they are having financial difficulties. So you are going to have to make it clear you will cost them a lot of money.

You can actually cost them a lot of money. If someone does a search and your comment that they scam people comes up it WILL hurt them. That's the only leverage you have. Whether that will work is speculative.
link to original post

Sounds like a good idea. Extortion always does until …..
link to original post

Extortion would be criminal action to coerce or threaten. This guy just wants the money he is owed.

Quote: Sandybestdog

. You I'm not sure in what way you mean but no I haven't.

He means "I don't trust anything but bricks and mortar casinos regulated in the US". It is a rational response to an apparently unregulated form of gambling.

It isn't one I share: domestic regulation is pretty awful also.. In practice casinos don't steal from people much for the simple reason will bet if they don't get paid. That's the only protection you have.

Quote: DougGander

Quote: Sandybestdog

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.
link to original post

Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time. Lawyers do not help.

I disagree 100%. I have went in front of the Nevada Gaming Commission many times and always thought they were fair.

Its impossible to give good opinions on this without knowing precisely how the advantage was manifested,
I also understand why this information would not be disclosed in public.

Quote: DRich

Quote: DougGander

Quote: Sandybestdog

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.
link to original post

Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time. Lawyers do not help.

I disagree 100%. I have went in front of the Nevada Gaming Commission many times and always thought they were fair.
link to original post

I didn't say they were unfair. The problem is the fines they levy are chickenfeed so large casinos can just ignore them.

The personnel themselves are pretty good, but like US regulators they don't have the money or influence to do their job.

Quote: DougGander

Quote: DRich

Quote: DougGander

Quote: Sandybestdog

Left with no other options, I filed complaints with 3 gaming commissions last week. I filed all at the same time cause I don't want each to possibly find out about the other and their decision be influenced. It will be interesting if different opinions are reached. I don't have high hopes. First I don't know if any statute of limitations has passed. Also I am still scared that there is a possibility they not only decide against me but also seek damages or charges against me. Remember winning from casinos is essentially taking the money from the states. I don't have confidence the court system will see it my way especially without a lawyer.
link to original post

Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time. Lawyers do not help.

I disagree 100%. I have went in front of the Nevada Gaming Commission many times and always thought they were fair.
link to original post

I didn't say they were unfair. The problem is the fines they levy are chickenfeed so large casinos can just ignore them.

The personnel themselves are pretty good, but like US regulators they don't have the money or influence to do their job.
link to original post

In Nevada, if they rule in your favor they will make the casino pay you.

Quote: DRich

In Nevada, if they rule in your favor they will make the casino pay you.

Perhaps but the legal environment has become so murky in recent months I wouldn't have any faith in a government agency currently.

Quote: DougGander

Quote: DRich

In Nevada, if they rule in your favor they will make the casino pay you.

Perhaps but the legal environment has become so murky in recent months I wouldn't have any faith in a government agency currently.
link to original post

I don't know that I would trust any regulators outside the U.S. but to say "Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time." is horrible advice.

Quote: rainman

Its impossible to give good opinions on this without knowing precisely how the advantage was manifested,
I also understand why this information would not be disclosed in public.
link to original post

Well yes both because the opportunity may exist somewhere else (this is not the first place but nothing currently) and also I still I am worried about possible repurcussions.

Quote: DRich

Quote: DougGander

Quote: DRich

In Nevada, if they rule in your favor they will make the casino pay you.

Perhaps but the legal environment has become so murky in recent months I wouldn't have any faith in a government agency currently.
link to original post

I don't know that I would trust any regulators outside the U.S. but to say "Gaming commissions are not going to help don't waste your time." is horrible advice.
link to original post

You have no experience of this type of scenario, obviously. I do.

Quote: DougGander

You have no experience of this type of scenario, obviously. I do.

You are probably correct, my 30 years working in Gaming and being the Director of Regulatory Compliance for a Gaming company is probably irrelevant.

My thirty years of experience as an online advantage player gives me relevant experience in this area.

Your experience working for gambling operations does not qualify you for this type of scenario. You won't get anywhere filling up forms and going through the proper channels.

Quote: DougGander

My thirty years of experience as an online advantage player gives me relevant experience in this area.

Your experience working for gambling operations does not qualify you for this type of scenario. You won't get anywhere filling up forms and going through the proper channels.
link to original post

You are still clearly wrong as I expressly pointed out that I was commenting on your assertion that contacting regulators will get you nothing. If you said that contacting the Potawami Gaming Commission about their Zimbabwe casinos I would have deferred to you. The problem is that you generalized it that contacting any gaming commission would be futile. Many commissions are legitimate and try to help.

Quote: DRich

Quote: DougGander

My thirty years of experience as an online advantage player gives me relevant experience in this area.

Your experience working for gambling operations does not qualify you for this type of scenario. You won't get anywhere filling up forms and going through the proper channels.
link to original post

You are still clearly wrong as I expressly pointed out that I was commenting on your assertion that contacting regulators will get you nothing. If you said that contacting the Potawami Gaming Commission about their Zimbabwe casinos I would have deferred to you. The problem is that you generalized it that contacting any gaming commission would be futile. Many commissions are legitimate and try to help.
link to original post

If you can tell us in what circumstances a regulatory body was of some use to you then I suggest you tell us, that would be genuinely interesting and useful.

I have never found them to be useful, nor has any one in my circle. I am not even anywhere of any one who has ever found them useful outside my circle though I'm sure someone must have done at some point.

The reason why it is almost certainly a waste of time here it is the play the guy is using is roughly analogous to a play like contingency-related betting where the casinos have an obvious get-out clause. The regulatory body will simply cite the relevant statute, regardless of how selectively and cynically it is being used here. It is not going to go anywhere. Especially as most such bodies are vulnerable to regulatory capture....ie they tend to be former casino people.

If you go to gaming or social media with this type of complaint then anybody who hears about it will hear one thing "they don't pay". Which costs the operation money, That's actual leverage. It may not be nice or pleasant or polite or something, but it works. I have to win to eat, I don't have time for pleasantries.