Thread Rating:

teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 2159
April 7th, 2021 at 6:01:23 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls

I hope some other greenie is watching this thread, because your actions violate the long-established insult clause here and you should immediately be suspended. Calling me a "troll" directly and repeatedly is an insult, there is no question about it. Are you really able to flaunt the rules here? Post video spam and throw insults? Bad day for WoV if so.

Look, Zuga, we are not in negotiation. I am stating my opinion. Your videos are exactly what I said they are, poorly produced spam with no value as an audit. Between the two of us, there is one of us who has owned and run an Internet casino auditing company. I purchased "Certified Fair Gambling" from Mike in 2006 and owned and ran it for 7 years. I know and understand all aspects of auditing online casinos for fairness.

The last word will not be yet another childish "troll" response from you. It will be those who see you for who you are by virtue of how you responded to me here. My current "troll" count is 3. You have done far more damage to yourself and your company by exposing your company's ugly underbelly through your name-calling than I could possibly do by my comments about your videos.
Last edited by: teliot on Apr 7, 2021
Personal website: www.ijmp.org
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4959
April 7th, 2021 at 9:10:24 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls

I hope some other greenie is watching this thread, because your actions violate the long-established insult clause here and you should immediately be suspended. Calling me a "troll" directly and repeatedly is an insult, there is no question about it. Are you really able to flaunt the rules here? Post video spam and throw insults? Bad day for WoV if so.


By convention, a member calling another member a troll is deemed an insult, BUT moderators get to make that judgement and to express that opinion. Zuga, as site owner IS a moderator. As site owner, Zuga gets to decide what to post. He COULD splatter the site with spam, but IMHO that would be a bad day for WoV. I don't see his video as spam, so that point is moot.
Quote:

Look, Zuga, we are not in negotiation. I am stating my opinion. Your videos are exactly what I said they are, poorly produced spam with no value as an audit.

The last word will not be yet another childish "troll" response from you. It will be those who see you for who you are by virtue of how you responded to me here. My current "troll" count is 3. You have done far more damage to yourself and your company by exposing your company's ugly underbelly through your name-calling than I could possibly do by my comments about your videos.

Hmmmmm....

Now that puts me on the spot!

It's pretty rare for Zuga to post in this forum, and for those who are not familiar, he's at the very top of the Admin hierarchy here. As site owner, he wayyyyy outranks me, and presumably outranks Wizard, who usually defines and interprets the rules.

At first, I thought the 'spam' and 'troll' comments were an in joke, not serious accusations. But re-reading the thread, both parties seem to mean it as their opinions.
Maybe Zuga's being tongue in cheek, or maybe Zuga is seriously angry at teliot's feedback. I don't know Zuga well enough to know that.

So. Do I suspend Zuga, let him apparently break the rules here by insulting teliot, Or do I rebuke him, or .....?

The answers are....

I do not have the administrative powers with which to suspend him. So, I won't. That one is easy.

By convention, as a moderator, Zuga has the right to call any member a troll. Both I and Wizard have called members 'troll' and even suspended them as such, so technically Zuga is exempt from that rule, by precedent. That's just the way it is!

BUT.....and this is where I'm really out on a limb... Had I called Teliot a troll, Wizard would have privately rebuked me. If Wizard had called Telliot a troll, I would have privately rebuked him by PM. You see, we have a convention of moderators not undermining each other in public... ("Don't wash your dirty washing in public" as we Brits say). So, PM's are being sent between moderators.

Just my two cent's on Teliot's feedback to Zuga (Is that Zuga in the video???)

The feedback seemed pretty harshly delivered and seems to have upset Zuga. But I don't think that was intended as a personal insult to Zuga. Nor do I think Teliot was being a troll. No. I personally, definitely don't think that meets my definition of a troll!

The best and most useful feedback that any business can receive is negative feedback. Especially constructive criticism. I thought Teliot was giving constructive criticism. If Teliot watched one of my promo Youtube videos and gave criticism of my production quality, or even my own presenting ability, I'd surely be very irritated, but I'd value the feedback. I'd want Teliot on my Quality Control team. I wouldn't want him stomping away from the forum in a huff.

If I'm not green tomorrow. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
Zuga
Administrator
Zuga
Joined: May 21, 2014
  • Threads: 44
  • Posts: 433
Thanks for this post from:
OnceDearJohnnyQ
April 7th, 2021 at 9:34:19 AM permalink
As one of the owners I do outrank admins/mods here, however I do not outrank forum rules. Thus I will gladly accept any suspension that Wiz and rest of the mods deem fit , all according to WOV rules, if found that I was in breach of those rules.
But I remain by my remarks, and have no intent to engage someone who was baiting for reaction on more than one occasion, other than call it a spade.

edit:

@OnceDear, No thats not me in the video. That's Andy, one of our guys from SRB team.
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 1960
Thanks for this post from:
Zuga
April 7th, 2021 at 9:51:38 AM permalink
I only blink when the newscasters on TV blink.
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4959
Thanks for this post from:
Zuga
April 7th, 2021 at 9:56:47 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

As one of the owners I do outrank admins/mods here, however I do not outrank forum rules. Thus I will gladly accept any suspension that Wiz and rest of the mods deem fit , all according to WOV rules, if found that I was in breach of those rules.
But I remain by my remarks, and have no intent to engage someone who was baiting for reaction on more than one occasion, other than call it a spade.

Thank you Zuga, (Phew!)
For this 'first offense' I'll impose the same penalty as to any other established member.... A reminder of the rule that we do not allow any personal insults under the rules and I request that you please do not use the pejorative term 'troll' again simply because that term is deemed a personal insult.
I suggest to Teliot that having given his 'constructive criticism' that he accepts it's been considered and rejected.
I further suggest that Teliot does not bother to give Zuga the benefit of his opinion in future. That can be Zuga's loss.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
Zuga
Administrator
Zuga
Joined: May 21, 2014
  • Threads: 44
  • Posts: 433
Thanks for this post from:
OnceDear
April 7th, 2021 at 10:04:27 AM permalink
I submit to the ruling.
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 109
  • Posts: 7711
Thanks for this post from:
teliot
April 7th, 2021 at 1:11:03 PM permalink
The troll or no troll or suspension or no suspension blather is distracting from the main point. To me, the difficulty in establishing credibility of an organization (LCB) that gets fees from the very casinos it is evaluating is murky at best. Don’t you actually use the word ‘affiliate’ when describing many casinos?

Zuga, can you cite an example of a casino that you were taking money from that you stopped doing so after finding they were shady?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 149
  • Posts: 19139
Thanks for this post from:
Zuga
April 7th, 2021 at 4:01:26 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

The troll or no troll or suspension or no suspension blather is distracting from the main point. To me, the difficulty in establishing credibility of an organization (LCB) that gets fees from the very casinos it is evaluating is murky at best. Don’t you actually use the word ‘affiliate’ when describing many casinos?

Zuga, can you cite an example of a casino that you were taking money from that you stopped doing so after finding they were shady?

Are you guys crazy? We have a situation where the owners of this website basically let us do what and say what we want, according to Mikes's rules. I can only think of one time where they pulled the owner's card, and that was with Buzzard who "repeatedly" harassed them( or whatever you want to call it). Aside from the casino ads(that you can block out of view) they rarely tout anything or even post here. Why do you guys want to rile them up?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 39
  • Posts: 2159
Thanks for this post from:
MichaelBluejay
April 7th, 2021 at 4:35:54 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Are you guys crazy? We have a situation where the owners of this website basically let us do what and say what we want, according to Mikes's rules. I can only think of one time where they pulled the owner's card, and that was with Buzzard who "repeatedly" harassed them( or whatever you want to call it). Aside from the casino ads(that you can block out of view) they rarely tout anything or even post here. Why do you guys want to rile them up?

For me, personally, as the owner of Certified Fair Gambling, I was an auditor of Online Internet Casinos. I've gone up against a billion dollar company who threatened to take down the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority if they sided with me. I've stood up to Costa Rican hoodlums. And I've sided with good, honest Online casinos when attacked by players who didn't understand how they could lose. I understand what an audit is, how it should be conducted and how the outcomes should be presented. They do not. So, yes, it upsets me seeing a video like this one, pretending to be an audit when it is in truth an infomercial.

But, for the good of this site and with full understanding that they know that we know it is spam, I'll let it go and not respond to the next one they post.

And yes, the guy really should blink. Not blinking is creepy.
Personal website: www.ijmp.org
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
  • Threads: 174
  • Posts: 1377
April 7th, 2021 at 9:34:48 PM permalink
@teliot - Can you divulge here or in pm any popular RNG names used by games online? I always see certifications that say they use well known RNGs, but can never find a commercial name. Are these well known rngs simply mathematical forumlas that can be researched in an academic setting? I am not a mathematically inclined person.

I have attempted to understand

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/02/predicting_a_sl.html

which references Fortuna.

I guess i should have asked if you were ever looking at source code yourself first but have you?

  • Jump to: