Taxes
Quote: jackmagic777Yes and no Must also be at least $600.
So if, at a table game, you win a side bet of $1 at 300-1 odds you are safe, but the vast majority of the time a payout of 300-1 will also be $600 or more.
Quote: ChumpChangeA Fire Bet at the craps table, when it pays 1000 For 1 is W-2G form taxable whether you bet $1 or up to $5 or more. If you win 250 For 1, there's no form, even if you bet $3-$5. Laying a big bet on the last point and losing on that does not disqualify you from getting a W-2G on the Fire Bet 6 point win. You can't always roll a 7 to avoid making the last point. If there was no tax on this bet, I'd probably bet it occasionally.
Someone can correct me as I have never won one but I have always been told a fire bet gets you a 1099
Why is the W2G for the Craps Fire Bet different from a Slot Machine pay? https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?2861-Why-is-the-W2G-for-the-Craps-Fire-Bet-different-from-a-Slot-Machine-pay
The 2019 edition of Tax Help For Gamblers by Jean Scott, Marissa Chien and Russel Fox is scheduled to be released late February or early March. Chien and Fox are highly experienced tax preparers for gamblers.
taxes.... Prof gambler vs not.... https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?5188-taxes-Prof-gambler-vs-not
Quote: GWAESomeone can correct me as I have never won one but I have always been told a fire bet gets you a 1099
W2g for all gambling winnings. 1099 for all promotional wins (drawings, etc.)
Quote: GialmereWhat if, like the Wizard, it's your actual job to play and professionally review casino games? Assuming you use your own money, can you write off (reasonable) losses as a business expense as opposed to a professional gambler weighing wins and losses?
I used too write my gambling losses off for my business as an R&D expense. I would give a few of my employee's $1000-$2000 per month for going out and playing new games in the casino. If they lost it then it was an R&D expense. If they won they would return the initial $1000 or $2000 and keep their winnings as a bonus.
Quote: DRichI used too write my gambling losses off for my business as an R&D expense. I would give a few of my employee's $1000-$2000 per month for going out and playing new games in the casino. If they lost it then it was an R&D expense. If they won they would return the initial $1000 or $2000 and keep their winnings as a bonus.
I'd use outside consultants.
Quote: DRichI used too write my gambling losses off for my business as an R&D expense. I would give a few of my employee's $1000-$2000 per month for going out and playing new games in the casino. If they lost it then it was an R&D expense. If they won they would return the initial $1000 or $2000 and keep their winnings as a bonus.
Dang, I want that job...!
The problem is "cumulative." Do they really give someone a W2G if this person plays $25 per hand for 2 hours and cashed out $100?
If I bet $25, won, then bet $25, lost. Repeat 100 times in this pattern, I only have $25.
But NJ online casino will say you won 50 times, with a cumulative winning of $1250, and a W2G is generated.
I'm not sure if this is true.
If NJ is counting every win in a session towards a tax form, I'd just give up unless I was betting $3 and keeping track of all wins.
BTW, most digital BJ games I see deduct your bet from your balance, then when you win, it says you won double what your bet was. So if you bet $500 and win $500, that would be a $1,000 win but not taxable; if you get a blackjack, you'd win $750 + your $500 bet for a total of $1250, which could be taxable. There should be no tax forms in BJ, but online it gets treated like it was a slot machine.
Quote: jren9718Maybe my description is confusing.
If I bet $25, won, then bet $25, lost. Repeat 100 times in this pattern, I only have $25.
But NJ online casino will say you won 50 times, with a cumulative winning of $1250, and a W2G is generated.
I'm not sure if this is true.
This can't be true.
Think about this---If you bet $25 on a slot machine and the payout was $15, did you lose $10 or win $15?
If you bet $25 on a slot machine and the payout was $40, did you win $40 or did you win $15?
Can you imagine the amount of W2Gs that would be generated by the on line slot players if this were true.
After filing an amended return along with all the session documentation showing the large net loss (negating the amount that they believed I owed on these “winnings”) and it being received by the IRS in March 2019 the book is almost closed on this chapter. When the amended 2019 was received it sat in a queue for over 3 months; mainly because of the dollar amounts involved. It was then given to a live agent to review. That agent deferred the case to another agent who I have spoken with several times over that last few weeks along with my accountant. The agent stated that the session method makes sense to him and this situation. He is reviewing the documentation and will be issuing the refund I expected within the next 30 days.
This whole thing has taken about 10 months to sort out. Kind of crazy, but I’m fine with it because they admitted that everything was done correctly.
My overall take is that the online gaming situation in this country is a new frontier and because of it there is a step learning curve when it comes to taxation.
If this post can save just one person who finds themselves in a similar situation a night of sleep I’ll be happy.
All the best,
BV
I used MGM online a lot this year for blackjack and got addicted. I was usually playing $100-200 hands except for one night when I went on tilt and played $500-$1000 hands for hours. I ended up down on the night, but I am worried I am going to get hit with a huge (and I think maybe $750k) W2G with my total winnings although across all my books I am probably down 20k.
Based on reading around here, it seems like session accounting is the best route, but the problem is, I've gambled a lot this year on 8 different websites so I feel getting all that information will be extremely tedious. Am I able to use the session accounting on just the particular W2G? I might have some other W2G's that will be smaller and I will probably itemize other losses since I ended up on those sessions.
Also...
I was a little confused about this from MGM's help page...
"Why did I receive multiple W2G forms?
Forms are generated for individual wins and unlike a 1099 form and Win Loss statement, W2G forms are aggregate based on a 24 hour period by game type - Casino, Sports, and Poker, but do not aggregate on a full year basis. This means players who had multiple wins, exceeding the stipulated win threshold per product, will receive one for each time they did/do so."
If my 24 hour period ended in a loss with a bunch of $1500-$2000 wins including the stake, am I still on the hook?
I am really freaking out right now and haven't been able to sleep or eat. This is horrible.
I am never gambling online again. Lesson learned.
Thanks to anyone for reading. Really need someone to talk to right now.
. Sounds complicated enough that you need either a CPA or tax attorney with expertise in gambling wins/losses. You may get ‘answers’ here on WoV, but you aren’t really going to file your taxes based on an anonymous Internet suggestion?Quote: throwaway95Is anyone still active here? I am getting worried that I am going to fall under the same problem the original poster had.
I used MGM online a lot this year for blackjack and got addicted. I was usually playing $100-200 hands except for one night when I went on tilt and played $500-$1000 hands for hours. I ended up down on the night, but I am worried I am going to get hit with a huge (and I think maybe $750k) W2G with my total winnings although across all my books I am probably down 20k.
Based on reading around here, it seems like session accounting is the best route, but the problem is, I've gambled a lot this year on 8 different websites so I feel getting all that information will be extremely tedious. Am I able to use the session accounting on just the particular W2G? I might have some other W2G's that will be smaller and I will probably itemize other losses since I ended up on those sessions.
Also...
I was a little confused about this from MGM's help page...
"Why did I receive multiple W2G forms?
Forms are generated for individual wins and unlike a 1099 form and Win Loss statement, W2G forms are aggregate based on a 24 hour period by game type - Casino, Sports, and Poker, but do not aggregate on a full year basis. This means players who had multiple wins, exceeding the stipulated win threshold per product, will receive one for each time they did/do so."
If my 24 hour period ended in a loss with a bunch of $1500-$2000 wins including the stake, am I still on the hook?
I am really freaking out right now and haven't been able to sleep or eat. This is horrible.
I am never gambling online again. Lesson learned.
Thanks to anyone for reading. Really need someone to talk to right now.
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You're right, when I finally get the W2G's I am going to a CPA, but that is still a month away. Is there anything I can do now to prepare?
Quote: throwaway95Thanks for responding.
You're right, when I finally get the W2G's I am going to a CPA, but that is still a month away. Is there anything I can do now to prepare?
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Call your CPA and confirm your list of documents to have ready.
This is usually the end of the slow season in accountantland and they may still have time to chat.
Gambling taxes are weird. Having a written log (even handwritten) of your play that includes dates, casinos, amounts, table or machine numbers carries much more weight than any documentation from casinos. I find that extremely weird.
It is also rather convenient for me, because I keep track of all these things anyway in tracking my play on my computer, plus other information like what dealers and pit personnel I play against. I don't need that for taxes, but is very easy just to print out a variation of this play log come tax time and let the Tax dude do his thing.
And on MGM, it looks like my transaction history says if I won 3 straight $500 hands, then I am +1500, not +500,+500,+500. MGM doesn't have available to me the details of each individual hand, just what the flow of money was. Hopefully this doesn't trigger more W2G's.
Unless I can get better info from the sites, I may just have to bite the bullet and itemize exactly. If they request more details later, I guess i can send the W/L statement?
Quote: throwaway95Even though all my play was online, it is extremely difficult to get each session's win or loss. If all my hand data was exportable to excel, this would be much easier.
And on MGM, it looks like my transaction history says if I won 3 straight $500 hands, then I am +1500, not +500,+500,+500. MGM doesn't have available to me the details of each individual hand, just what the flow of money was. Hopefully this doesn't trigger more W2G's.
Unless I can get better info from the sites, I may just have to bite the bullet and itemize exactly. If they request more details later, I guess i can send the W/L statement?
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The IRS does not accept Win/Loss statements as proof if audited. You need to have an extemporaneous log of each session. It probably doesn't help you now, but any gambling you do in the future keep a daily log.
And I've been reading up on chances of being audited and I think I most likely will. My AGI will increase by 10 fold due to gambling "winnings" and I am going to write it all off because I am net negative.
I wonder if the sites I used could send me a file with every wager placed and that would be good enough? Does anyone have experience with this? Or getting audited?
I was just confused by your earlier comment about why leaving a session with profit is easier tax wise. Either way you still need to track and report winnings and losings?
So if you have 10X your AGI with the W-2G's, and you have no explanation about where that money went, you'll need a tax attorney, and maybe bring a class action suit against the IRS for BS laws.
I know I will need it if it gets audited which I am scared it will. Ugh!
And I know,
1. It's BS that online BJ is considered the same as slots for tax purposes
2. It's crazy how you can play online BJ for hours with just $20 in your account but if you make it last for a while, your gambling "winnings" explode. In my situation, I was playing very often for much higher hand amounts. I can honestly see my total AGI being in the millions which is ridiculous when all in all I really only swung around 20k the whole year.
Had I known any of this beforehand, I would never have played...
I could claim on a player's card that I bet $10,000 over thousands of bets, but if I'm only up $20 and never had a W-2G, nobody would need to know.
For sessions accounting, I'd have to mention my buy-in, my cash-out, and my win/loss. The total amount bet doesn't matter. But since you were betting large and triggering the $1200 IRS level on the regular, yeah, your total bets that paid off a combined $1200+ could add up to the millions.
I wish I wasn't going to receive this dumb W-2G because it's just going to open up a can of worms.
Thanks for responding and the advice. Really appreciate it
Quote: ChumpChangeThis is why every session should be ended with a profit, so you don't have to calculate the loss.
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Or ended with a loss so there is nothing to tax.
Maybe there is a chance I didn't trigger a W2-G somehow, but that's just being overly optimistic.
Ouch!!Quote: throwaway95And honestly the night I went on tilt, I made the $1,000 bets last for a few hours which could be in the $500,000 range alone, if not more. If I add all my other bets for the year, I could be in a few million dollars which just seems like way too much.
Maybe there is a chance I didn't trigger a W2-G somehow, but I that's just being overly optimistic.
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I play tiny stakes online, but frequently and with low house edge, my own turnover easily exceeds a few million UK pounds every year. And there's no real profit to pay any tax out of. Thank **** our tax authorities don't want to know anything about gambling. The IRS and US state tax regimes seem insane by comparison.
So unfair. Good luck.
Ugh the whole situation is really stressing me out. I guess until the W2-G's come in, I can just try to get data on my "sessions" although that seems near impossible...
Quote: throwaway95Thanks, I'll need it.
Ugh the whole situation is really stressing me out. I guess until the W2-G's come in, I can just try to get data on my "sessions" although that seems near impossible...
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Maybe I missed something…. are you saying you have not received a SINGLE W-2G yet? I’m not telling you what to do, other than if you are concerned consult a CPA or tax attorney with expertise in these matters…. but I’ll bet there are millions of people in the USA that have gambled online and no mention of it appears on their tax returns..
If no W2-G is generated, how will the IRS find out you lost a few thousand over the year playing online BJ?
I didn't realize I could only post 10 times in the first 30 days of your account so I needed to make a new one.
I am in a very similar situation as the original poster. We both played online blackjack with no dealer (his was on Borgata, mine was on MGM who are owned by the same company so the procedures are most likely the same). If you win a hand of $1200 that includes the stake, then you will get filed a W2-G. The original poster realized it in January of 2019 when he was sent it.
I know I've been doing a lot of $500-$1000 bets of online blackjack. Because of my wins doing this, I expect to receive a W2-G detailing those specific wins, which then get sent to the IRS. MGM will send it in late January. So I will now be on the hook for whatever that figure will be (which could honestly be in the millions). I will then have to itemize everything because I am at a loss for the year. Because the figures are so high and my AGI will increase by a lot, I fear of being audited.
Also, this will mess up my AGI which impacts my IRA contributions I made in 2021. That along with other complications of tracking each bet/session I made throughout the year is really stressing me out.
I also just got off the phone with a CPA and he said that my gambling won't impact my AGI because I am at a net loss but that just seems wrong. I am not sure if I want to go with them for my full tax return.
Also he didn't seem to think my AGI will increase since I am a net loss which doesn't make sense based on what I reading. He also wasn't familiar with session accounting and said this is a very usual circumstance and no one has ever been audited from the clients he has worked with.
I am going to try to contact some more CPAs and ask for other opinions because this is ridiculous.
Quote: throwaway96I know I am very concerned because I feel I should put the full amount, not just what's on W-2G's.
Also he didn't seem to think my AGI will increase since I am a net loss which doesn't make sense based on what I reading. He also wasn't familiar with session accounting and said this is a very usual circumstance and no one has ever been audited from the clients he has worked with.
I am going to try to contact some more CPAs and ask for other opinions because this is ridiculous.
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Do a lot of his gambling clients have ten times higher numbers year to year?
... yeah. You maybe want to talk to a different accountant.
Quote: throwaway96Hello,
I didn't realize I could only post 10 times in the first 30 days of your account so I needed to make a new one.
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Absolute rule break here. This account banned. normally, both would be, but I'm in a good mood.
We knew that was coming !Quote: OnceDearOuch!!
I play tiny stakes online, but frequently and with low house edge, my own turnover easily exceeds a few million UK pounds every year. And there's no real profit to pay any tax out of. Thank **** our tax authorities don't want to know anything about gambling. The IRS and US state tax regimes seem insane by comparison.
So unfair. Good luck.
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LOL. Did I mention our NHS too? $:o)Quote: Ace2We knew that was coming !Quote: OnceDearThank **** our tax authorities don't want to know anything about gambling. The IRS and US state tax regimes seem insane by comparison.
So unfair. Good luck.
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