Microgaming video poker auto-hold
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That brings me to my question. I noticed in the free mode of the Gaming Club Flash (instant play) casino the auto-hold is really bad. It seems to hold only paying hands and wild cards. For example, in Jacks or Better it would not auto-hold a low pair. I haven't seen it happen, but assume it would not auto-hold four to a royal. My question is whether this is due to it being the Flash casino, free play mode, both, or whether their auto-hold is always wrong. I used to play in Microgaming casinos a LOT back in the good old days and strongly believed the auto-hold to be accurate back then.
For example, on the Spielo GTECH machines at Wheeling Island all of the auto-holds are based on "Highest probability of winning the hand," so it would hold a Jack on JoB rather than a low pair if given the choice, but the player can manually undo that.
If Microgaming has a reason for these terrible holds, I have no idea what it could be. I believe the machines at Wheeling Island hold the way they do because the machines are not permitted to have a Base Return greater than 95%, but the game is 9/5 Jacks, which, of course, does return better than that. However, I assume that if people were just to listen to whatever the machine wants them to do, the return would be less than 95%.
On a hand like Ac-Kc-Qc-Jc-Jd, for instance, the machine would want to keep the Jacks...100% probability of winning the hand.
Quote: Mission146If Microgaming has a reason for these terrible holds, I have no idea what it could be.
To fleece the sheep, naturally.
I know full well casinos can make money running honest games with a house edge. Especially online casinos. but we've also seen documented cases of cheating by such casinos. You'd be surprised, ro eprhaps not, how many newbies think an autohold is always best, since "the machine must know more about this." At the same time savvy players may get tired of undoing the autohold on nearly every hand, and overlook it a few times.
So you get the clueless playing along with bad strategy, and the better players driven off in larger numbers.
I'm not sayign this is what's going on, but ti's something worth considering. The casino can even claim the game is honest, and it may well be. I assume one need not play the hands as the autohold dictates.
I'll be more direct: I assume the auto-hold is an option you can turn on and off. If so, what is the exact option wording?
Auto hold ?
Auto hold winning cards ?
Auto hold best cards ?
I assume it's the second example.
Free mode + online casino. Talk about gambling this sounds like Russian roulette after the 4th miss.Quote: WizardFor years I haven't written much about online casinos because most of them block anybody from the US, as evidenced by IP address. This week I did something I should have done years ago, get a proxy server to give a phony IP address in the UK. This at least allows me to play in free mode using software that normally blocks US players, like Microgaming. In fact, I'm working on a much-needed update of my Microgaming review now.
That brings me to my question. I noticed in the free mode of the Gaming Club Flash (instant play) casino the auto-hold is really bad. It seems to hold only paying hands and wild cards. For example, in Jacks or Better it would not auto-hold a low pair. I haven't seen it happen, but assume it would not auto-hold four to a royal. My question is whether this is due to it being the Flash casino, free play mode, both, or whether their auto-hold is always wrong. I used to play in Microgaming casinos a LOT back in the good old days and strongly believed the auto-hold to be accurate back then.
How would one get an account set up if they lived in the USA and get paid?
What kind of bonuses do they have?
Quote: Mission146Is there not a HELP screen for the game that tells you what the hold criteria is?
It states that the auto-hold is based on optimal play.
Quote: WizardAuto-hold should be based on optimal play always. However, this requires a lot of extra computer code, which they probably didn't bother with in the free Flash casino, to keep download time faster.
I would say "Unless otherwise stated," the Spielo GTECH machines specifically state in the HELP menu that the auto-hold is based on the greatest probability of winning the hand.
I really think that is how Wheeling Island gets away with having VP that pays over 95% because the State mandates a maximum base return of 95%, yet the Spielo GTECH machines are 9/5 Jacks.
Here's an example of what I mean:
Js,3h,3d,7d,9c
The optimal hold is the pair with an ER of 0.823682, but the machine will Auto-Hold the Jack with an ER of 0.484647...Replace the Seven with an off-suit Queen and the machine will hold Jack/Queen for an ER of 0.502683.
All the machine is concerned with is what offers the greatest probability of winning the hand.
At least it gives them the opportunity to offer a decent game, I wonder how poor the return is if the player listens to every auto-hold?
Quote: WizardI feel strongly it is deceiving the public to indicate the hold with the greatest probability of winning. So with four to a royal or a high pair it would auto-hold the high pair?! That is just unethical in my opinion. The role of government should be to protect against this kind of abuse, even if it is disclosed in the rules screens.
The Government is the problem, in this case, the State of West Virginia is the entity who has determined that the base pays of a gaming machine in the State of West Virginia shall not exceed 95%.
Personally, I tend to applaud the casino for having a game that skirts the law in this way in order to offer a Video Poker game that doesn't absolutely suck.
If I see someone not changing the hold on an extremely obvious play, I'll usually reference WoO and tell them they should go on and learn the game because they are not benefitting from playing VP (as opposed to slots or VK) in this regard due to the greatly reduced ER of following the auto-hold. Although, it's very rare for me to see anyone playing the VP on it, anyway, most people play the Keno.
It's actually decent on Mondays, if you are Gold, Platinum or Stealth the game becomes slightly over 100% when factoring in the cash back from the points multiplier...though I do mean slightly, especially for Gold (1.000498).
Quote: WizardMy question is whether this is due to it being the Flash casino, free play mode, both, or whether their auto-hold is always wrong. I used to play in Microgaming casinos a LOT back in the good old days and strongly believed the auto-hold to be accurate back then.
I don't know this, and I probably should given that they are my competition.
But then again, I really don't care. If I found any "incriminating data", I couldn't do anything with it. To do so would strike me as "bashing the competition", and I'm not comfortable with that.
For all I know, they might be running the entire free play game client side - RNG, "shuffling" algorithm, "auto hold" algorithm, and so forth. Doing everything client side would save them server load, which is important. But it would also save them the cost of bandwidth, which (depending on where the server is) can be pretty expensive.
Given that Microgaming started as a "fat client" application, I would guess they might have a corporate culture that "thin client" (Flash, et. al) is intrinsically crap. So, thin client free play is crap on crap.
We don't have auto hold because to do it "absolutely right" would take a LOT of time, time we just haven't been able to find. Also, I'm against turning Video Poker into a 2-click slot machine.
Chris
BTW - I voted ... wait for it ... "I don't know".
But, in the strictest sense of the wording, the high pair IS a guaranteed winner, while the four to a royal is not.
So, assuming that's the wording, I can't really fault them.
Quote: WizardAuto-hold should be based on optimal play always. However, this requires a lot of extra computer code, which they probably didn't bother with in the free Flash casino, to keep download time faster.
Back when Microgaming casinos accepted US players, it was my experience that the download version made the correct holds, but the Flash version only held winning hands and wild cards as you mentioned.
Quote: WizardThe role of government should be to protect against this kind of abuse, even if it is disclosed in the rules screens.
Quote: Mission146The Government is the problem
Sorry if I quoted Mission out of context, but the role of government is to reward politically powerful people or groups at the expense of others.
There's no proper role for government in something as trivial as casino gambling.
Quote: Mission146Because it is a disservice to all who are taught to play incorrectly lacking a disclaimer that it is incorrect.
People can't take their own responsibility for optimal play?
I mean, I'm all for blaming casinos for absolutely everything that's their fault, up to and including their existence, the majority of whose we'd all be a lot better off without. But blaming them for players learning incorrect game strategy might be a step too far.
Quote: gpac1377Sorry if I quoted Mission out of context, but the role of government is to reward politically powerful people or groups at the expense of others.
There's no proper role for government in something as trivial as casino gambling.
Right on. The role of the politicians is to repay the debts incurred campaigning. They are terrible people.
"The State! -All it owns, it has stolen! It even bites with stolen teeth."
"The state is the coldest of all clammy monsters and it lies cooly; and this lie oozes from its icy lips: "I, the State, am the people."
Neitzsche
EDIT to add: indeed, the flash is incorrect, I just checked. Only holds made pays.
Quote: CarusoPeople can't take their own responsibility for optimal play?
I mean, I'm all for blaming casinos for absolutely everything that's their fault, up to and including their existence, the majority of whose we'd all be a lot better off without. But blaming them for players learning incorrect game strategy might be a step too far.
I tend not to blame casinos for very much at all, except for those that cheat.
I'm not necessarily blaming Microgaming for people not educating themselves prior to playing a game, however, my concern is that a player may, "Practice," on this game under the false assumption that he/she is educating himself/herself. People could then take what they "Learned," from the game into a casino with a game that does not auto-hold and then emulate the incorrect holds.
That's why I maintain auto-holds should be correct or not at all, absent a clearly worded disclaimer in the HELP file if the holds are not Optimal.
Quote: Mission146I'm not necessarily blaming Microgaming for people not educating themselves prior to playing a game, however, my concern is that a player may, "Practice," on this game under the false assumption that he/she is educating himself/herself. People could then take what they "Learned," from the game into a casino with a game that does not auto-hold and then emulate the incorrect holds.
Then they are supremely ignorant / irresponsible and shouldn't be let out the house, much less gamble online. Frankly I think you'll get a camel through the proverbial eye of a needle before that one gets any traction.
And all play autohold is correct in the download. I don't think they're trying to shaft anyone.
