Pai Gow Poker on Bodog - YIKES!

The commission at Bodog is 25 cents, even if your bet is ONE DOLLAR. Found out the hard way. Come on, Bodog. That's not cool.

I agree, that isn't right. They are probably rounding up to the nearest quarter. I wrote to my contact there, suggesting they make the commission a flat 5%.

Just to keep everyone in the loop, I have spoken with the Bodog casino manager and he explained the situation: The Bodog Pai Gow Poker game takes a 5% commission, however, it rounds up to the next $0.25 when taking commissions. This is how it was originally built, and it is also stated in the rules and description of the game.

https://casino.bodog.com/guide/pai-gow-poker.html
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Payout
Winnings paid to the player are even minus a 5% commission. If the player risked $100, the winning hand would return the risk amount plus an additional $95. The game will round up to the next $0.25 when taking commissions.
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However, with that said, he does not feel that this is a good way to do it, so he will be looking into making it take a real 5% commission. Thanks so much for pointing this out, we appreciate it!

Becky

How about Bacarrat? Is the commission rounded up to 25cents on a dollar bet? What are the betting limits on Bacarrat?

Quote: DeMango

How about Bacarrat? Is the commission rounded up to 25cents on a dollar bet? What are the betting limits on Bacarrat?

Unfortunately, yes. I'll let them know.

What I would like to do is test a progression I have invented without having to go to a B&M Casino to do so. Initially I would like the low end of my bets to be at the dollar level and would like a reasonable table limit of $3-500 to handle possible fluctuations. If Bodog in the real mode can't handle it, I suppose we must look elsewhere

I just signed up with Bodog per your recommendation and while playing dollar bets on Baccarat I was shocked to realize each time I won on banker I was being charged 25%!!!! So before spouting off here I decided to do a search to see whether the subject has been brought up yet and found that it had; way back nearly 10 months ago. So even after Mr Wizard's request to end such a dishonorable practice, it still goes on. I mean, this is 100% computer-based, so exactly how difficult would it be to charge an ACTUAL 5% on ANY bet? Absolutely no more difficult than charging 25%.

Sorry to say this, but with such an unethical practice I cannot understand how you can still promote such a gaming site. Sometimes I like to bet different numbers, not just fives or multiples of 5. So if I bet $6 on banker they take about 8.4%, and so on. Obviously this "rounding up" rule is completely intentional to maximize profits on players betting anything other than $5 increments.

So Mr Wizard, Becky, any word on whether they ever intend to end this outrageous policy? If they don't, I'll cash out my money and look elsewhere.

Quote: OahuPlayer

So Mr Wizard, Becky, any word on whether they ever intend to end this outrageous policy? If they don't, I'll cash out my money and look elsewhere.

Hey there,

I just spoke with the Bodog Casino manager and he has confirmed that this is a known issue at that his team is working on a solution (it is actually a more complicated project than meets the eye). Bodog Casino plans to make these improvements for Baccarat, Pai Gow and other games that include this commission calculation and as soon as the updates have been completed, the Wizard (and his community) will be the first to know.

Bodog Casino greatly appreciates the feedback and always strives to meet sensible requests, so please keep it coming!

Thank you,
Becky

Becky -

Not for nothing, but, OahuPlayer has a point. 10 months is excessive.

I understand that there are priorities, and other projects, but 10 months? How long does a problem sit on a back burner, hoping nobody asks about it?

Becky,
I appreciate the quick response and your sincere efforts to get this resolved. I certainly do hope they get this fixed sooner than later. While it may seem trivial, in my mind it is not. I've seen other websites who take 5% across the board, so to say it's a "known issue" doesn't cut it. Why was it done that way from the beginning? You can't say it was done that way in error nor was it any more technologically difficult to program the software to take 5% than to take numbers rounded to quarters.

Even if we were back in 1980 having this discussion I wouldn't believe it would be technically challenging to have the program charge 5% across the board. Changing the program is another issue which I do understand, but I don't understand how they could have been of such a mind to do it this way from the start and to take this long to fix it. Obviously, as pointed out by DJTeddyBear this has not been much of a priority for them.

Needless to say I will not be playing baccarat until this is fixed, and it had better not be 10 months from now.

An obvious solution is to use commission-free Pai Gow Poker, putting in an absolutely shameless plug for EZ Pai Gow. The game is 100% commission-free 100% of the time.

The dealer pushes hands when he gets a Queen-high Pai Gow, and only a Queen-high Pai Gow, which occurs once in every 58 hands. It provides for a 1.5% increase (not 1.7%, because a few hands would have pushed anyway from also having no top).
This matches the 1.5% house edge generated by the commission-based version of the game, at the 30% player win rate times the 5% commission.

edit: see http://www.deq.com/section/products/pdf/EZ_PAI_GOW.pdf

Quote: OahuPlayer

Becky,
Needless to say I will not be playing baccarat until this is fixed, and it had better not be 10 months from now.

The only relevant question is, which of the following is true:

1. The program that takes too much commission was written by a computer nerd who had never actually played the game in question, and for that matter, hasn't been let out of the basement he works in for three years.
2. They deliberately programmed in this "issue" to increase revenue, and hoped nobody would notice (and anybody who DOES notice and complains is fobbed off, obfuscated, meaninglessly soothed, etc.).

If it were me with the problem, I'd be offering a refund on excess comissions to all players so affected. If I were a player so affected, I'd be demanding a refund.

I'm really not sure it's excess commission that has been collected. It's very common for land-based casinos to round to the nearest liquid dollar amount. They frequently short-change the odds in craps, or collect 10% ($0.50) on a $5 winner in PGP or bacc.

Bodog is in the business of emulating a land-based casino in an online setting. To me, the problem is more that they allow bets in $1 increments than it is that they round the commission up to the nearest $0.25 - the rounding would happen exactly the same in a land-based casino that allowed $1 bet increments. I don't see why Bodog should make less than they otherwise could just because they offer their games online.

Quote: rdw4potus

I don't see why Bodog should make less than they otherwise could just because they offer their games online.

True. Like everyone else, they have a right to charge "what the maket will bear." A business operation does not apologize for turning a profit.
If they price themselves out via commissions, they will lose the market or adapt.
But...I can see the point that with no dealer/supervision and brick and mortar expenses, it looks usurious.
Also, with using a no-commission system, the house edge and player disadvantage remains constant regardless of any bet's amount.

Quote: rdw4potus

Bodog is in the business of emulating a land-based casino in an online setting. To me, the problem is more that they allow bets in $1 increments than it is that they round the commission up to the nearest $0.25 - the rounding would happen exactly the same in a land-based casino that allowed $1 bet increments. I don't see why Bodog should make less than they otherwise could just because they offer their games online.

If that is theri policy and it's clearly announced and stated beyond a doubt, then fine. But when they admit publically they erred and have spent months trying to correct the problem, they've said they charged an excess.

Besides, in an electronic game, and one with electronic payments via trasnfers and deposits, the bets can be paid to the penny. Drawing penny, nickel, dime and quarter chips shouldn't be too hard.

Quote: rdw4potus

I don't see why Bodog should make less than they otherwise could just because they offer their games online.

That line of thinking no longer applies.

BoDog already admitted that it needs to be fixed. The problem is that they are dragging their feet to get it done.

Yes, as soon as I saw this thread I knew there was a technical problem with Bodog's Pai Gow Poker.
Commission is usually %5 on this game.
Depending on where you go of course. :) Some online casinos have reversed commission Pai Gow.

Bodog being the good casino that they are will fix this problem I am sure.