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AxelWolf
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November 30th, 2022 at 7:14:01 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I was reading today that a lot of the recent sales are from individuals, and it is institutions buying them. For the uninitiated, that means the large buyers are buying to protect their investments. For bitcoin to rise in value, it needs a new wave of investors. With two years of negative growth, I don't see that happening. I strongly suspect there is any number of large investors who will be liquidating before the authorities start selling off the scraps of FTX, and whoever else goes belly up in the next few weeks.
link to original post

I was reading today BTC was going to the moon, big deal. it's all meaningless.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rainman
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November 30th, 2022 at 7:34:59 PM permalink
Weather or not Bitcoin goes up down is an investment or not doesn't concern me
I use it as a vehicle. What does concern me is its total collapse. I know a guy who
has taken and is taking many bitcoin match bonuses and he wonders what
happens at cash out if Bitcoin has totally collapsed.
AxelWolf
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November 30th, 2022 at 8:28:28 PM permalink
Quote: rainman

Weather or not Bitcoin goes up down is an investment or not doesn't concern me
I use it as a vehicle. What does concern me is its total collapse. I know a guy who
has taken and is taking many bitcoin match bonuses and he wonders what
happens at cash out if Bitcoin has totally collapsed.
link to original post

Convert it to the cash balance and only keep what you need in BTC. The problem with that would be if CoinBase or whatever exchange you were on went bust unless you were cashing out of the exchange regularly, but then you're dealing with fees.

Online casinos desperately need BTC or Some type of working crypto payment method.

I know at one point one online crypto casino was responsible for nearly half of the BTC transactions at that time.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Ace2
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November 30th, 2022 at 8:54:11 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Spring Break is only nine weeks away
link to original post

On what planet?
It’s all about making that GTA
ChumpChange
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December 1st, 2022 at 6:58:48 AM permalink
I thought that was Ground Hog's Day, but Florida has different rodents.
rxwine
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December 1st, 2022 at 7:33:08 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I thought that was Ground Hog's Day, but Florida has different rodents.
link to original post



We have giant snails that eat stucco. Not worth much bitcoin though.
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AxelWolf
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December 1st, 2022 at 3:20:39 PM permalink
I noticed land end Inc lost 30 % in one day. It must be a pyramid scheme according to some.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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December 2nd, 2022 at 12:18:33 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I noticed land end Inc lost 30 % in one day. It must be a pyramid scheme according to some.
link to original post



Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme not a pyramid scheme, they are not the same thing.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
darkoz
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December 2nd, 2022 at 5:26:30 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

I noticed land end Inc lost 30 % in one day. It must be a pyramid scheme according to some.
link to original post



Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme not a pyramid scheme, they are not the same thing.
link to original post



OMG, beanie babies was a Ponzi scheme?

You have been claiming Bitcoin are beanie babies.

Can we sue beanie babies manufacturer for running a Ponzi scheme?

Or can we just ignore your post which makes no sense?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mission146
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December 2nd, 2022 at 5:47:06 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

I noticed land end Inc lost 30 % in one day. It must be a pyramid scheme according to some.
link to original post



Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme not a pyramid scheme, they are not the same thing.
link to original post



OMG, beanie babies was a Ponzi scheme?

You have been claiming Bitcoin are beanie babies.

Can we sue beanie babies manufacturer for running a Ponzi scheme?

Or can we just ignore your post which makes no sense?
link to original post



Beanie Babies is just a collectible, and also a confidence game, so similar to Bitcoin in that sense. It looks like FTX may have been a Ponzi scheme, but I don’t think Bitcoin itself is.

On the other hand, Blackrock is, apparently, allowed to not pay people when they want their money. I guess it’s a little different for a REIT as the game is physical property, which is presumed to be quite a bit less liquid (and I assume all of this is laid out in the contract anyway) compared to BTC which should be, theoretically, the second most liquid thing to cash itself.

Anyway, it was decided that Beanie Babies didn’t have the value they once did. Confidence game over, or, fewer players anyway.

Will the same happen to BTC? Who the hell knows? How can I predict what BTC is going to do when it is fundamentally worthless and any implied value it has is totally illogical and based only on people assigning it that value anyway?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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December 2nd, 2022 at 5:51:07 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

I noticed land end Inc lost 30 % in one day. It must be a pyramid scheme according to some.
link to original post



Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme not a pyramid scheme, they are not the same thing.
link to original post



OMG, beanie babies was a Ponzi scheme?

You have been claiming Bitcoin are beanie babies.

Can we sue beanie babies manufacturer for running a Ponzi scheme?

Or can we just ignore your post which makes no sense?
link to original post



Beanie Babies is just a collectible, and also a confidence game, so similar to Bitcoin in that sense. It looks like FTX may have been a Ponzi scheme, but I don’t think Bitcoin itself is.

On the other hand, Blackrock is, apparently, allowed to not pay people when they want their money. I guess it’s a little different for a REIT as the game is physical property, which is presumed to be quite a bit less liquid (and I assume all of this is laid out in the contract anyway) compared to BTC which should be, theoretically, the second most liquid thing to cash itself.

Anyway, it was decided that Beanie Babies didn’t have the value they once did. Confidence game over, or, fewer players anyway.

Will the same happen to BTC? Who the hell knows? How can I predict what BTC is going to do when it is fundamentally worthless and any implied value it has is totally illogical and based only on people assigning it that value anyway?
link to original post



That makes Blockbuster video a beanie baby.

One moment people had an interest in using Blockbuster. The next they didn't.

Sears as well.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
ChumpChange
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December 2nd, 2022 at 6:16:40 AM permalink
I never liked Blockbuster, the prices were too high. There was a Family Video that went up elsewhere when Blockbuster disappeared. They'd have old DVD/Blu-Ray movies to rent for 50 cents or $1; new releases were too expensive, as were video game rentals. I thought I saw Amanda Bynes working at my local store and in 6 months the place closed down. I really need to check ID's on suspicious personalities, but I really have no right to. Anyway, online entertainment is replacing B&M video rental stores. In 1990, I tried to rent a video tape, and since I didn't have a credit card, they wanted a $90 deposit for each tape. All that's left is the Red Box machine at the local stores, and Red Box online if I bother to set up an account.

I've been told that credit cards won't work during rolling power blackouts forecast for the northeast this winter, but neither will my thermostat or my TV.

Bitcoin backed credit cards are being frozen during this trouble with FTX and other platforms.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Dec 2, 2022
Mission146
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December 2nd, 2022 at 7:02:52 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz


That makes Blockbuster video a beanie baby.

One moment people had an interest in using Blockbuster. The next they didn't.

Sears as well.
link to original post



Blockbuster Video was a company, not a collectible. In the case of Beanie Babies, TY was the company. The Ty company still exists to this day, it would appear.

The bubble for the Beanie Babies finally busted as, to a large extent, some people began to realize the fact that they are just worthless little stuffed animals that literally anyone decent at sewing could make but for copyright/trademark/patent infringement, or whatever. That's kind of how confidence games work, you get everyone to supposedly buy into the idea of something fundamentally worthless having value and then, intentionally or unintentionally, you participate in the thing in question which helps further bump up the perceived value (some people are intentional pumpers) and then you try to get out near the top.

Really, you're kind of counting on Ty to play along with the whole thing as they could tank the perceived value simply by releasing a ton more of the product in question that is supposed to have value. Even then, some people would try to keep it propped up by virtue of it being, "First edition," or whatever, as if it's not still just a stupid stuffed animal.

Sears is a whole story on its own, but a very entertaining one. I'd start with the Company Man (Youtube) videos on that and Kmart, then go from there.

Blockbuster was simply a product category (physical movie rental) that there wasn't going to be a place for and the company didn't realize it until it was too late. In fairness to them, the Great Recession didn't help and they couldn't have known first by-mail, then by streaming, companies such as Netflix would take off so fast. Additionally, Redbox started to pick up in popularity, tended to have the latest movies and games, and didn't have nearly the cost to bring the products to the consumer that Blockbuster did.

Also, cable providers actually started competing with Blockbuster by way of having video rental on demand.

One interesting thing is that Blockbuster once had the opportunity to buy Netflix and passed on it, so you can look into that. At the time, Netflix would have sold itself to Blockbuster to the tune of 50M, but circa 2000, there was really no reason to believe Netflix would succeed as a company as physical rental was pretty standard and Blockbuster probably felt it could compete with Netflix in anything else if Netlfix ended up being successful-which Blockbuster thought it wouldn't be. Here's a good article to start:

https://sports.yahoo.com/blockbuster-ceo-struggled-not-laugh-191553438.html#:~:text=In%202000%2C%20the%20CEO%20of,them%20out%20of%20the%20room.

So, was Blockbuster a Confidence Game? I don't think so. It's certainly not a collectible. Was Blockbuster overvalued? Definitely, but most companies are.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
rxwine
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December 2nd, 2022 at 7:51:55 AM permalink
I put all my money in Betamax over VHS.
j/k

Seems speaking of Blockbuster, I think for a while they had a Betamax section. Betamax didn't get around to fixing their tape length soon enough. Having to use two tapes to watch a movie killed it,

Then I was positively sure Laser Disks were the next big thing. But the big record size ones not CDs.

Then I put all my money on cassette tapes over vinyl as a nostalgia item.

I can afford a penny stock now.
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DRich
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December 2nd, 2022 at 8:16:30 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mission146

Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

I noticed land end Inc lost 30 % in one day. It must be a pyramid scheme according to some.
link to original post



Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme not a pyramid scheme, they are not the same thing.
link to original post



OMG, beanie babies was a Ponzi scheme?

You have been claiming Bitcoin are beanie babies.

Can we sue beanie babies manufacturer for running a Ponzi scheme?

Or can we just ignore your post which makes no sense?
link to original post



Beanie Babies is just a collectible, and also a confidence game, so similar to Bitcoin in that sense. It looks like FTX may have been a Ponzi scheme, but I don’t think Bitcoin itself is.

On the other hand, Blackrock is, apparently, allowed to not pay people when they want their money. I guess it’s a little different for a REIT as the game is physical property, which is presumed to be quite a bit less liquid (and I assume all of this is laid out in the contract anyway) compared to BTC which should be, theoretically, the second most liquid thing to cash itself.

Anyway, it was decided that Beanie Babies didn’t have the value they once did. Confidence game over, or, fewer players anyway.

Will the same happen to BTC? Who the hell knows? How can I predict what BTC is going to do when it is fundamentally worthless and any implied value it has is totally illogical and based only on people assigning it that value anyway?
link to original post



That makes Blockbuster video a beanie baby.

One moment people had an interest in using Blockbuster. The next they didn't.

Sears as well.
link to original post



Blockbuster had the opportunity to buy Netflix for $50 million. That may have been poor judgement.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Joeman
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December 2nd, 2022 at 8:28:30 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Betamax didn't get around to fixing their tape length soon enough. Having to use two tapes to watch a movie killed it,

Then I was positively sure Laser Disks were the next big thing. But the big record size ones not CDs.

Laser Discs had the same sort of issue -- you'd have to eject it and flip it over to watch the end of the movie! I had a couple of roommates who both had laser discs. Great quality, but they & the players were very expensive compared to VHS, from what I understand. Plus the flipping issue!

BTW, anyone interested in moving into a Blockbuster er... Boathouse storefront, I think you can get a good deal on this one!
Last edited by: Joeman on Dec 2, 2022
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
TigerWu
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December 2nd, 2022 at 9:28:22 AM permalink
Quote: DRich



Blockbuster had the opportunity to buy Netflix for $50 million. That may have been poor judgement.
link to original post



Now there's a sitcom on Netflix about the last Blockbuster in the world.
billryan
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December 7th, 2022 at 1:14:31 PM permalink
Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 1:35:09 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post



I didn't realize that either. That is positively brutal and pretty much ends any argument about it moving with the broader market, even though BTC not being near all-time highs and freefalling when the broader markets are actually up made any such argument instantly ridiculous anyway.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:31:51 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post



I didn't realize that either. That is positively brutal and pretty much ends any argument about it moving with the broader market, even though BTC not being near all-time highs and freefalling when the broader markets are actually up made any such argument instantly ridiculous anyway.
link to original post



Hmmm. You would have been better off investing in a bank like Citibank five years ago



------++++++

Oh my bad what a brutal investment. United airlines would have been better



---------------

Oopsy my bad again. At least Amazon did good by anyone who invested nearly five years ago on September 21, 2018.

Oh damn wrong again those investors stock isn't up either.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:34:40 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post

Please show me a legit chart showing BTC was more than 19,000 on or before December 7th, 2017.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:34:41 PM permalink
Another good solitary example of a stock down over that period is CytoDyn.

Why pretend to not know what I meant by, "Broader market?"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:36:09 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post

Please show me a chart showing BTC was more than 19,000 on or before December 7th, 2017.
link to original post



I guess we'll just have to see if it's above 19.5k in eight days.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
billryan
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:38:52 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post

Please show me a legit chart showing BTC was more than 19,000 on or before December 7th, 2017.
link to original post



I'm not sure what you mean by a legit chart.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
billryan
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:45:28 PM permalink
You could soak bitcoin in lemonlabob and that dog still won't hunt.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:48:18 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

You could soak bitcoin in lemonlabob and that dog still won't hunt.
link to original post



Cures Covid, though.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:51:42 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post

Please show me a legit chart showing BTC was more than 19,000 on or before December 7th, 2017.
link to original post



I'm not sure what you mean by a legit chart.
link to original post

A legitimate source. I'll accept google finance, Coinbase, or something comparable.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
billryan
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:52:25 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: billryan

You could soak bitcoin in lemonlabob and that dog still won't hunt.
link to original post



Cures Covid, though.
link to original post



Just talking about it kept me healthy. It truly is a miracle drug.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:54:30 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post

Please show me a legit chart showing BTC was more than 19,000 on or before December 7th, 2017.
link to original post



I'm not sure what you mean by a legit chart.
link to original post

A legitimate source. I'll accept google finance, Coinbase, or something comparable.
link to original post



December 6th, 2017:

https://www.coinbase.com/price/bitcoin

Nearly 19.7k.

I can't make the scroller land on the 7th, but it wasn't meaningfully different.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:57:52 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Bitcoin.
I didn't realize this, but it's now underwater for the last five years. If you bought bitcoin five years ago and Ronco'd it, you are down 15% on the price and would have collected zero in dividends. Five years is a good window into an investment and is what most people look at.
Buy now before it hits $250,000.
link to original post

Please show me a legit chart showing BTC was more than 19,000 on or before December 7th, 2017.
link to original post



I'm not sure what you mean by a legit chart.
link to original post

A legitimate source. I'll accept google finance, Coinbase, or something comparable.
link to original post



December 6th, 2017:

https://www.coinbase.com/price/bitcoin

Nearly 19.7k.

I can't make the scroller land on the 7th, but it wasn't meaningfully different.
link to original post

Then that doesn't count.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 2:59:09 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Then that doesn't count.
link to original post



It was down significantly yesterday compared to five years and one day ago...and yesterday was a better day for BTC than today.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:02:03 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: AxelWolf

Then that doesn't count.
link to original post



It was down significantly yesterday compared to five years and one day ago...and yesterday was a better day for BTC than today.
link to original post

I looked at CB and it doesn't come up for that day, so I looked at google finance at it said 15,300

What Bill fails to mention is that if you had bought it a month or so prior or after you would be doing very well.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:18:09 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Mission146

Quote: AxelWolf

Then that doesn't count.
link to original post



It was down significantly yesterday compared to five years and one day ago...and yesterday was a better day for BTC than today.
link to original post

I looked at CB and it doesn't come up for that day, so I looked at google finance at it said 15,300

What Bill fails to mention is that if you had bought it a month or so prior or after you would be doing very well.
link to original post



I don’t know that he, “Failed” to mention that. I do grant that five years ago, today, happened to fall on a crest relative to that time period.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:37:55 PM permalink
What bill also fails to mention is that if you had purchased a Bitcoin five years ago and sold it at $60,000 you would have done phenomenally well.

Which is why past posting dates is meaningless.

Most of Bill posts are meaningless.

Note that when he feels threatened he just resorts to the usual tropes. Making fun of Leronlimab name and pointing out that the stock isn't doing well.

Bill thinks United airlines was a better five years investment.
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Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:39:15 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

What bill also fails to mention is that if you had purchased a Bitcoin five years ago and sold it at $60,000 you would have done phenomenally well.

Which is why past posting dates is meaningless.

Most of Bill posts are meaningless.

Note that when he feels threatened he just resorts to the usual tropes. Making fun of Leronlimab name and pointing out that the stock isn't doing well.

Bill thinks United airlines was a better five years investment.
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CytoDyn.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:44:41 PM permalink
Well, let’s see, does United Airlines provide a mass useful service?

Check.

Okay, is United Airlines in possession of perhaps billions of dollars of physical property?

Check.

If worse came to worse, might the Government bail out United Airlines, once again?

Check.

Also, I wonder if there was a major market event that would cause a crash in airline stock prices that might be difficult to recover from? Gee, let me think…what could have happened, say in the last five years, that might impact the consumer travel sector?

I know it wasn’t Covid, because LemonLamb knocked that out right away and CytoDyn, totally not a confidence game, totally not a pump and dump…the most above board and greatest biotech company in the world figured out the cure to Covid within minutes.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:50:47 PM permalink
Also, if you buy near the bottom or middle, and sell near the very top, of anything, you will be doing very well.

It’s that simple, folks. Just always sell at the very top! It’s that easy!

I’d ask for more investment advice, but I guess I don’t really need it. I can simply sell at the top of everything and everything will be fine.
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billryan
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December 7th, 2022 at 3:55:54 PM permalink
I understand that you don't seem to grasp investing, but it's about the long term, and if one owns a stock that is going up, they don't usually don't sell it. Investing isn't about saying if the person sold at the height of the market, they'd have done well. That's called speculating, and why would a speculator sell at $60,000 when it will be $250,00 next split? An investor who bought bitcoin and held it,as investors do, hasn't made a dime in five years. Even if a stock flatlines for five years, you usually get a quarterly dividend that produces income or that you reinvest for more stock.
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AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:05:23 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I understand that you don't seem to grasp investing, but it's about the long term, and if one owns a stock that is going up, they don't usually don't sell it. Investing isn't about saying if the person sold at the height of the market, they'd have done well. That's called speculating, and why would a speculator sell at $60,000 when it will be $250,00 next split? An investor who bought bitcoin and held it,as investors do, hasn't made a dime in five years. Even if a stock flatlines for five years, you usually get a quarterly dividend that produces income or that you reinvest for more stock.
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If its about longterm then let's go back to the beginning
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Dec 7, 2022
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:10:43 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

I understand that you don't seem to grasp investing, but it's about the long term, and if one owns a stock that is going up, they don't usually don't sell it. Investing isn't about saying if the person sold at the height of the market, they'd have done well. That's called speculating, and why would a speculator sell at $60,000 when it will be $250,00 next split? An investor who bought bitcoin and held it,as investors do, hasn't made a dime in five years. Even if a stock flatlines for five years, you usually get a quarterly dividend that produces income or that you reinvest for more stock.
link to original post

If its about longterm then let's go back to the begging
link to original post



Bill won't go back ten years because then his thesis is ridiculous.

Also selling high and buying low isn't possible if Everytime the price rises you hold.

In fact it seems Bill knows very little about what investing is. You buy low and sell high. But all Bill points to is buying high and people selling low.
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Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:12:31 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I understand that you don't seem to grasp investing, but it's about the long term, and if one owns a stock that is going up, they don't usually don't sell it. Investing isn't about saying if the person sold at the height of the market, they'd have done well. That's called speculating, and why would a speculator sell at $60,000 when it will be $250,00 next split? An investor who bought bitcoin and held it,as investors do, hasn't made a dime in five years. Even if a stock flatlines for five years, you usually get a quarterly dividend that produces income or that you reinvest for more stock.
link to original post



It’s my opinion that he doesn’t understand trading. Even cherry-picking to demonstrate a non-point against something that I didn’t even say, he picked a company that has a clearly identifiable reason for the difference in share price.

What about anything I said implied that every single company on Earth has performed better than BTC in the last five years?

Who bought United five years ago knowing that there’d be a worldwide pandemic?

To be clear, I’m not claiming to have any great insight. I made a few private suggestions to friends who I know are in the market that I felt the Covid price crash with respect to casinos was far greater than could ever be justified. When it comes to this stuff, if I talk about it publicly at all, then it’s only to remark on what has already happened and why I thought it happened.

I also don’t think most people should play in the markets because most individuals lose when they do. Mostly poor decision-making, not considering downside and always swinging for home runs, quite frankly.

Like mega casinos, the market ain’t built on winners.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:15:30 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Well, let’s see, does United Airlines provide a mass useful service?

Check.

Okay, is United Airlines in possession of perhaps billions of dollars of physical property?

Check.

If worse came to worse, might the Government bail out United Airlines, once again?

Check.

Also, I wonder if there was a major market event that would cause a crash in airline stock prices that might be difficult to recover from? Gee, let me think…what could have happened, say in the last five years, that might impact the consumer travel sector?

I know it wasn’t Covid, because LemonLamb knocked that out right away and CytoDyn, totally not a confidence game, totally not a pump and dump…the most above board and greatest biotech company in the world figured out the cure to Covid within minutes.
link to original post



So the company with the "useful service" and owning billions in property also has been a failure for investors from five years ago.

In other words prognosticators of how prices were five years ago is meaningless. If Bitcoin is a disaster then so is United airlines.

Also anyone who brought Amazon just under five years ago has lost money.

Meanwhile anyone who brought Bitcoin ten years ago vs Amazon vs. United airlines did best with Bitcoin which went from $1 to $16,000
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Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:16:58 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

I understand that you don't seem to grasp investing, but it's about the long term, and if one owns a stock that is going up, they don't usually don't sell it. Investing isn't about saying if the person sold at the height of the market, they'd have done well. That's called speculating, and why would a speculator sell at $60,000 when it will be $250,00 next split? An investor who bought bitcoin and held it,as investors do, hasn't made a dime in five years. Even if a stock flatlines for five years, you usually get a quarterly dividend that produces income or that you reinvest for more stock.
link to original post

If its about longterm then let's go back to the begging
link to original post



Bill won't go back ten years because then his thesis is ridiculous.

Also selling high and buying low isn't possible if Everytime the price rises you hold.

In fact it seems Bill knows very little about what investing is. You buy low and sell high. But all Bill points to is buying high and people selling low.
link to original post



Should a person who does not own Bitcoin buy it right now, yes or no, if yes, then why?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:24:26 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mission146

Well, let’s see, does United Airlines provide a mass useful service?

Check.

Okay, is United Airlines in possession of perhaps billions of dollars of physical property?

Check.

If worse came to worse, might the Government bail out United Airlines, once again?

Check.

Also, I wonder if there was a major market event that would cause a crash in airline stock prices that might be difficult to recover from? Gee, let me think…what could have happened, say in the last five years, that might impact the consumer travel sector?

I know it wasn’t Covid, because LemonLamb knocked that out right away and CytoDyn, totally not a confidence game, totally not a pump and dump…the most above board and greatest biotech company in the world figured out the cure to Covid within minutes.
link to original post



So the company with the "useful service" and owning billions in property also has been a failure for investors from five years ago.

In other words prognosticators of how prices were five years ago is meaningless. If Bitcoin is a disaster then so is United airlines.

Also anyone who brought Amazon just under five years ago has lost money.

Meanwhile anyone who brought Bitcoin ten years ago vs Amazon vs. United airlines did best with Bitcoin which went from $1 to $16,000
link to original post



I can’t speak to Amazon because I don’t know anything about events that would impact them significantly. One would think a broader market tendency that went from services to goods would have helped them, but maybe not.

The point on United is that the stock dropped for a very obvious reason, same as casinos and everything else did. The difference is that United has not recovered as quickly. I do not claim to know why that is. Even privately, I would never recommend buying airlines because I don’t know anything about that market sector.

I make no prediction on BTC because it has zero fundamental value, is a confidence game and is, therefore, impossible for me to predict. Other than obvious examples such as FTX, I have no idea what influences the market negatively. I certainly don’t know what influences positive movement.

I guess that mining new BTC is probably not a worthwhile endeavor at this time due to energy costs, but that’s about all I am confident of.

Anyway, if prognosticators are supposed to pinpoint the exact timing of worldwide pandemics, then I guess you’re right. Shame on them for not having godlike knowledge of rare future events that temporarily change the entire world, you know?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:25:45 PM permalink
Did anyone here even know what Bitcoin was ten years ago?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:38:36 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Did anyone here even know what Bitcoin was ten years ago?
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Go back to the first page of this thread from 2013 when the price was about $200+ and everyone said buying it then would be a great loss.
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AxelWolf
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:43:27 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mission146

Did anyone here even know what Bitcoin was ten years ago?
link to original post



Go back to the first page of this thread from 2013 when the price was about $200+ and everyone said buying it then would be a great loss.
link to original post

You go back to the first time someone posted their thoughts on BitCoin and judge their opinion on that based on where it's at today. Go back 5 years from that,(bills criteria?) Then see what it was at the time he/they commented. Then go back 5 years from each day starting today. He picked the one day that going back 5 years made it, break-even / + or - a small amount. It definitely wasn't a 15% loss.

He talks about making interest, there were people making interest off of BTC and other crypto at a high rate.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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December 7th, 2022 at 4:54:57 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: Mission146

Did anyone here even know what Bitcoin was ten years ago?
link to original post



Go back to the first page of this thread from 2013 when the price was about $200+ and everyone said buying it then would be a great loss.
link to original post



Seems like AHigh had it right relative to back then.

Should someone who does not own any buy it today? If yes, then why?

I think the point that Bill and I were making is that, over the last five years, more traditional and historically safer investments have done better overall.

When you look at ten year growth, sure, BTC probably beats just about anything. I imagine people poo-pooed tech companies, such as Google, once upon a time.

Sometimes you’re right, sometimes you’re wrong. You’re more likely to be right if you stick to what you know.

I’d never buy BTC because I’ll never be able to get outside of my paradigm that it has no fundamental value. Won’t win, but definitely won’t lose.

Casinos, April 2020, I just looked at reported financials and said, “This is just ridiculous unless they’re going to be closed forever.”

Of course, if casinos never reopened, then that could only mean the entire world was screwed anyway, so missing on those buys wouldn’t really matter.

I’d also have sold WAY too early, which I admitted in the article I wrote about them. When PENN hit $19.00, I almost drove to a friend to physically remove him from his phone so I could sell to at least the extent that he’d get his initial investment back. He did end up selling some. We both now agree he shouldn’t have and I was wrong. Lol.

Of course, checking a few, they’re down from the peak they did hit last year. Some of them exceeded pre-pandemic PPS, which I found to be just as ridiculous as the fact that they had dropped so much in the first place.

Anyway, I’m good when these things are slap in the face obvious, but anyone should be. Casinos are certainly outperforming Bitcoin relative to 04/2020, even though Bitcoin is also up significantly relative to then.
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AZDuffman
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December 7th, 2022 at 5:16:20 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146



Should a person who does not own Bitcoin buy it right now, yes or no, if yes, then why?
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A person should be dollar cost averaging into it. Consider it the same as your sports betting bankroll. Same with ETH.
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billryan
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December 7th, 2022 at 5:33:14 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Mission146



Should a person who does not own Bitcoin buy it right now, yes or no, if yes, then why?
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A person should be dollar cost averaging into it. Consider it the same as your sports betting bankroll. Same with ETH.
link to original post



If you dollar cost average for the last five years, where would you be?
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
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