BitCoin
Quote: billryanQuestions one should ask before buying anything
1) If I buy now, is it more expensive than it was six months ago.
2) Why am I wanting to buy something because the price is higher than it was. Can you imagine if supermarkets worked like that?
3) Is there any evidence to suggest prices will be higher in the future?
4) If I'm going to buy it now and sell it for a profit later, who is the market I will be selling to. Is it growing or receding?
5) If I like it at 35,000, why didn't I like it at $20,000. What has changed to make it a buy at a higher price.
6) Have I convinced myself that I am more in tune with the future of the product than "the herd"
All those points apply to the unstable mentality of a gold rush mining town where people are buying and selling gold claims. The same greed mentality applies to bitcoin.
Hovering in the 36,000 range.
Quote: billryanThe country requested the IMF bankroll the rollout of the coin by supplying the nation with the means to bring the internet to every house and business but the IMF declined.
LMAO at that. So, the ulterior motive was hiding in plain sight.
It reminds me of when the UK was in Europe, Our government kept begging Europe for grants to build lots of cycle lanes through our towns. And so they built them by laying bits of red or green tarmac down, either by carving out bits of road or pavement sidewalk. Many of the cycle lanes would go for about 5 metres, then end for some reason and start up half a mile down the road for another few metres. It was all about securing 'our share' of the funding , regardless of value for money.
*Pity the price of my BTC is stuck in a rut.
Quote: billryanIt looks like El Salvador's bitcoin dream is dead. The country requested the IMF bankroll the rollout of the coin by supplying the nation with the means to bring the internet to every house and business but the IMF declined. Looks like the whole scheme .
What did I say just a few days ago. Number one, it was a scheme. Number two, it was never going to happen. I didn't think it would fail this quickly but it had to fail. Nobody in their right mind wants a crypto as their currency. Darkoz and Axel love to pull up my quotes, let's see if they pull those up.lol
Quote: rxwineAnyone buy Rocket Bunny?
So no one here became a trillionaire overnight?
hmmmmmf volatile.Quote: rxwineSo no one here became a trillionaire overnight?
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/rocket-bunny
and enigmatic..
https://rocketbunny.io
Quote: rxwineSo no one here became a trillionaire overnight?
Around 1971, my Uncle had us look up the exchange rate on German Marks. It was roughly 4 to a dollar. He feigned surprise and showed us a dozen 100,000 Mark notes that he supposedly had brought back from his time in postwar Germany. There were about ten of us nieces and nephews and he gave us each one. Our new house had just set my family back 19,000 so getting something worth $25,000 certainly made me feel like a millionaire. It hurt when we found out it was an elaborate practical joke and the bills were available at coin stores for a few bucks.
Then it will not become an official legal tender anywhere yet and may never. If you both said that would not happen, then you were both correct.Quote: EvenBobWhat did I say just a few days ago. Number one, it was a scheme. Number two, it was never going to happen. I didn't think it would fail this quickly but it had to fail. Nobody in their right mind wants a crypto as their currency. Darkoz and Axel love to pull up my quotes, let's see if they pull those up.lol
Quote: billryanAround 1971, my Uncle had us look up the exchange rate on German Marks. It was roughly 4 to a dollar. He feigned surprise and showed us a dozen 100,000 Mark notes that he supposedly had brought back from his time in postwar Germany. There were about ten of us nieces and nephews and he gave us each one. Our new house had just set my family back 19,000 so getting something worth $25,000 certainly made me feel like a millionaire. It hurt when we found out it was an elaborate practical joke and the bills were available at coin stores for a few bucks.
They were the pre-devaluation marks?
Turns out it was a glitch.Quote: rxwineSo no one here became a trillionaire overnight?
Quote: EvenBobWhat did I say just a few days ago. Number one, it was a scheme. Number two, it was never going to happen. I didn't think it would fail this quickly but it had to fail. Nobody in their right mind wants a crypto as their currency. Darkoz and Axel love to pull up my quotes, let's see if they pull those up.lol
I will do better than pulling up your quote
I will link to Bloomberg news from three days ago.
El Salvador officially made Bitcoin legal tender
Not if, when, never... It's now.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-16/bitcoin-is-now-legal-tender-in-el-salvador-is-that-really-a-good-thing
And yes all merchants in El Salvador must accept Bitcoin.
Quote: billryanAround 1971, my Uncle had us look up the exchange rate on German Marks. It was roughly 4 to a dollar. He feigned surprise and showed us a dozen 100,000 Mark notes that he supposedly had brought back from his time in postwar Germany.
Those bills are actually from after the first World War. I have a bunch of them they still aren't worth anything. I have several $1000000 notes that are worth maybe a couple bucks.
Quote: billryanIt looks like El Salvador's bitcoin dream is dead. The country requested the IMF bankroll the rollout of the coin by supplying the nation with the means to bring the internet to every house and business but the IMF declined. Looks like the whole scheme was just an attempt to get outsiders to modernize the very broken infrastructure.
Hovering in the 36,000 range.
Link please?
I googled every which way and the latest articles are that IMF has voiced concerns WHILE CONTINUING TO NEGOTIATE.
That's a far cry from a dead deal.
And nowhere did I see any mention of financing internet infrastructure.
You certain you didn't just make this up?
This is the only link I could find that mentioned internet infrastructure and it says it's being financed by El Salvador. And still only hypothesizes on the IMF loans future
https://protos.com/el-salvador-bitcoin-could-complicate-billion-imf-loan/
Quote: darkozI will do better than pulling up your quote
"The World Bank rejected a request from El Salvador to help with the implementation of the cryptocurrency as a legal tender. The bank said it could not assist El Salvador’s implementation of bitcoin due to the environmental impact of bitcoin mining, and transparency drawbacks. El Salvador could now face problems reaching its deadline of ensuring bitcoin is accepted in the next three months after the World Bank’s decision."
The deadline for implementation is in Sept, and
without the World Bank it's dead in the water.
Just like I predicted.
Quote: EvenBob"The World Bank rejected a request from El Salvador to help with the implementation of the cryptocurrency as a legal tender. The bank said it could not assist El Salvador’s implementation of bitcoin due to the environmental impact of bitcoin mining, and transparency drawbacks. El Salvador could now face problems reaching its deadline of ensuring bitcoin is accepted in the next three months after the World Bank’s decision."
The deadline for implementation is in Sept, and
without the World Bank it's dead in the water.
Just like I predicted.
It's still legal tender for the nation of El Salvador.
Just like you got wrong most every prediction about Bitcoin.
It's been legal tender for a week. Your calling it a failure already is premature.
Quote: darkozI will do better than pulling up your quote
I will link to Bloomberg news from three days ago.
El Salvador officially made Bitcoin legal tender
Not if, when, never... It's now.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-16/bitcoin-is-now-legal-tender-in-el-salvador-is-that-really-a-good-thing
And yes all merchants in El Salvador must accept Bitcoin.
Merchants have to accept bitcoin IF they have internet access. That is about forty percent of the merchants. The Salvadorians were hoping the IMF would fund the needed expansion. The IMF thought otherwise.
Interestingly, all prices are in US Dollars and the price stays constant.
There is a town in El Salvador that some rich American has adopted, for want of a better word. He allegedly made hundreds of millions of dollars as an early bitcoin believer and has donated many millions of dollars to the local economy and everything is paid in bitcoin, but again at a fixed price. So far the town is doing a little better but the boom some anticipated hasn't happened yet. Much of the economy comes from surf tourism and they hope bitcoin drives more tourists.
The concept of accepting payment in bitcoin, but pricing in dollars seems incredibly ill-conceived.
by the way - bitcoin being accepted as legal tender still doesn't make it a currency.
PS- Im going to guess the poster didn't bother reading the article he linked. It certainly doesn't advance any of his arguments.
Quote: billryanMerchants have to accept bitcoin IF they have internet access. That is about forty percent of the merchants. The Salvadorians were hoping the IMF would fund the needed expansion. The IMF thought otherwise.
Interestingly, all prices are in US Dollars and the price stays constant.
There is a town in El Salvador that some rich American has adopted, for want of a better word. He allegedly made hundreds of millions of dollars as an early bitcoin believer and has donated many millions of dollars to the local economy and everything is paid in bitcoin, but again at a fixed price. So far the town is doing a little better but the boom some anticipated hasn't happened yet. Much of the economy comes from surf tourism and they hope bitcoin drives more tourists.
The concept of accepting payment in bitcoin, but pricing in dollars seems incredibly ill-conceived.
by the way - bitcoin being accepted as legal tender still doesn't make it a currency.
PS- Im going to guess the poster didn't bother reading the article he linked. It certainly doesn't advance any of his arguments.
I am guessing Bill didn't read the link I supplied and doesn't think Forbes is correct either.
Forbes considers Bitcoin a currency.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/martinrivers/2021/06/17/el-salvador-can-pay-world-bank-in-bitcoin-according-to-charter/amp/
Last week you posted a link in another thread that you said supported your cydy stock when it actually linked to a lawyer looking to sue the company.
Quote: billryanWould you please read links, not just the headlines. You post a link you claim says bitcoin is now legal, when it says it will be legal in three months.
I keep pointing out that the deadline is the middle of September and it will not be their currency until then. He totally ignores it like it doesn't exist. Bitcoin is NOT a currency in El Salvador until the middle of September. But it won't matter this will be long forgotten by September. The whole thing was a scheme to get the World Bank to bail them out. Watch, he still won't get it.
Quote: darkozIt's still legal tender for the nation of El Salvador.
In SEPTEMBER, it's not official till SEPTEMBER!!!!
Quote: billryanWould you please read links, not just the headlines. ...
You post an article that details the problems with bitcoin and claim it somehow means Forbes supports your position.
Bill,
Please explain how you think the Forbes article is negative on Bitcoin based on the snippets above. (apparently you didn't read the article or Don't understand it)
please explain how this is possible.Quote: EvenBob. Like an article I read said, nobody is going to buy a new car in Bitcoin only to have it be worth half what they paid for it a week from now.
Uh? If I was daft enough to buy a new car in whatever currency... It would be worth almost a new car a week from now.Quote: EvenBobnobody is going to buy a new car in Bitcoin only to have it be worth half what they paid for it a week from now.
Yes. I get it. I could have maybe waited a week and bought 2 new cars.
Quote: AxelWolfplease explain how this is possible.
Axel, these are the so-called financial wizards of WOV.
I buy a $40,000 car using Bitcoin. It's mine free and clear.
Then a week later the price of Bitcoin drops and EB thinks my car's value dropped with it. He believes I can't still sell it for it's proper dollar value (notwithstanding normal depreciation for driving off the lot).
SMH
Actually, it seems weirder than that. EB seems to think because the price of BTC doubled, the car is worth half the purchase price.Quote: darkozAxel, these are the so-called financial wizards of WOV.
I buy a $40,000 car using Bitcoin. It's mine free and clear.
Then a week later the price of Bitcoin drops and EB thinks my car's value dropped with it. He believes I can't still sell it for it's proper dollar value (notwithstanding normal depreciation for driving off the lot).
SMH
Wrong, whichever way we look at it.
Quote: AxelWolfplease explain how this is possible.
Say you buy a Bitcoin for $60,000 and go to a dealership that deals in Bitcoin and give them your Bitcoin for a $60,000 car. Overnight the price drops to $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and he gives you your Bitcoin back in exchange for your car. You change your mind and the next day Bitcoin is still worth $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and the car you want is now costing two Bitcoins and you only have one. This is a very simplified scenario to make a point, but this is how buying and selling works. Without stability it doesn't work at all.
Quote: EvenBobSay you buy a Bitcoin for $60,000 and go to a dealership that deals in Bitcoin and give them your Bitcoin for a $60,000 car. Overnight the price drops to $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and he gives you your Bitcoin back in exchange for your car. You change your mind and the next day Bitcoin is still worth $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and the car you want is now costing two Bitcoins and you only have one. This is a very simplified scenario to make a point, but this is how buying and selling works. Without stability it doesn't work at all.
The problem seems to be that you don't even have the minimum basic understanding of how Bitcoin works, what it's about or how it can be used to even be commenting on it.
Let's say I'm at the dealership and I want to buy a car using bitcoin, so I transfer the BTC right then and there. He confirms he received the BTC (perhaps he auto converts it into a stable coin), and then hands me the keys to the car.
I don't disagree that BTC isn't stable enough at this point for the common everyday person to be using it as an everyday method of payment.
Quote: EvenBobSay you buy a Bitcoin for $60,000 and go to a dealership that deals in Bitcoin and give them your Bitcoin for a $60,000 car. Overnight the price drops to $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and he gives you your Bitcoin back in exchange for your car. You change your mind and the next day Bitcoin is still worth $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and the car you want is now costing two Bitcoins and you only have one. This is a very simplified scenario to make a point, but this is how buying and selling works. Without stability it doesn't work at all.
What????
I buy a $60,000 Bitcoin and use it to buy a car. Got it.
I own my car.
Overnight the Bitcoin drops to $30,000 got it.
Now I go back to the dealership. Why would I accept just the Bitcoin back for my car? If the dealership wants my car he now owes me 2 Bitcoins.
Why would I sell my $60,000 car for a $30,000 Bitcoin back to the dealership?
Quote: AxelWolfThe problem seems to be that you don't even have the minimum basic understanding of how Bitcoin works,
I understand perfectly how it works, it's speculation in a commodity, kind of, eccept Bitcoin is not a commodity. It's you that doesn't get it. You keep trying to treat it like currency and money and it's not. In any way shape or form. I just read an article whose title was: do you know what Bitcoin is good for? NOTHING! Which is the truth. It's not money, it's not a currency, it's property. It's no different then the property speculation boom that went on in Florida a hundred years ago. Speculators kept buying property which would drive the price up and they would sell it and make a profit and buy more property. Eventually they ran out of property and they ran out of buyers around 1925 and the whole thing went bust. People lost millions. That's exactly what's happening with Bitcoin, they are bleeding buyers and because there is not an endless supply of them , they will run out and the whole thing will collapse. As all speculation booms are doomed to collapse.
And your car dealer scenario is no different than mine, just a different take on the story.
Quote: EvenBobI understand perfectly how it works, it's speculation in a commodity, kind of, eccept Bitcoin is not a commodity. It's you that doesn't get it. You keep trying to treat it like currency and money and it's not. In any way shape or form. I just read an article whose title was: do you know what Bitcoin is good for? NOTHING! Which is the truth. It's not money, it's not a currency, it's property. It's no different then the property speculation boom that went on in Florida a hundred years ago. Speculators kept buying property which would drive the price up and they would sell it and make a profit and buy more property. Eventually they ran out of property and they ran out of buyers around 1925 and the whole thing went bust. People lost millions. That's exactly what's happening with Bitcoin, they are bleeding buyers and because there is not an endless supply of them , they will run out and the whole thing will collapse. As all speculation booms are doomed to collapse.
And your car dealer scenario is no different than mine, just a different take on the story.
Can you please start supplying links to these articles
Quote: AxelWolfplease explain how this is possible.
If you bought the car last year and put 1/100th of a bc down and have payments of 1/100th each month, would you be screwed or what?
El Salvador is offering " golden tickets". right now. In order to attract semi-rich Americans to move there, they are offering tremendous benefits to anyone willing to invest three bitcoins into their country. When they started the program, An American needed almost $200,000 to qualify. Today, the needed sum is less than $100,000 and the program is not attracting the best and the brightest.
Quote: billryanIf you bought the car last year and put 1/100th of a bc down and have payments of 1/100th each month, would you be screwed or what?
So I bought a Bitcoin to use on down payments of a car when it was worth $9,350 one year ago and now it's worth $35,698.
I don't know am I screwed or not?
Quote: darkozCan you please start supplying links to these articles
Why, you won't read them, what's the point. Why should I do your work for you, look stuff up yourself
Quote: darkozSo I bought a Bitcoin to use on down payments of a car when it was worth $9,350 one year ago and now it's worth $35,698.
You can pick any scenario you like to make Bitcoin look good or bad. That's why it can never be a currency. Why would you loan Bitcoin to somebody to buy a car when you have no idea how long it will take him to pay you in full. Could take two or three times longer than it would with a stable currency. It would be monetary insanity.
Quote: EvenBobYou can pick any scenario you like to make Bitcoin look good or bad. That's why it can never be a currency. Why would you loan Bitcoin to somebody to buy a car when you have no idea how long it will take him to pay you in full. Could take two or three times longer than it would with a stable currency. It would be monetary insanity.
Wow,, Axel was right you just really have no idea how Bitcoin works.
Quote: EvenBobWhy, you won't read them, what's the point. Why should I do your work for you, look stuff up yourself
Of course I would read so I can understand how you keep getting things wrong.
I suspect you don't really read these so called articles and just make stuff up but providing links would help disprove that as well as make your case.
Unless you don't have a case.
NO YOU DON'T. You haven't bought it/ used it/sold it/transferred it yourself, or you wouldn't be saying 90% of what you say. It seems like you miss read stuff and then try to repeat it in your own words here. Then you use silly examples of stuff people wouldn't do unless they were idiots. My example was how someone would actually buy a car using bitcoin at a dealership. You could buy a car online using bitcoin. there are services that can take the fluctuation risk away from the dealer and buyer. Good for nothing? .... There are 300,000 transactions per day so it must be good for something. People have made tons using it at online casinos and they still are.Quote: EvenBobI understand perfectly how it works, it's speculation in a commodity, kind of, eccept Bitcoin is not a commodity. It's you that doesn't get it. You keep trying to treat it like currency and money and it's not. In any way shape or form. I just read an article whose title was: do you know what Bitcoin is good for? NOTHING! Which is the truth. It's not money, it's not a currency, it's property. It's no different then the property speculation boom that went on in Florida a hundred years ago. Speculators kept buying property which would drive the price up and they would sell it and make a profit and buy more property. Eventually they ran out of property and they ran out of buyers around 1925 and the whole thing went bust. People lost millions. That's exactly what's happening with Bitcoin, they are bleeding buyers and because there is not an endless supply of them , they will run out and the whole thing will collapse. As all speculation booms are doomed to collapse.
And your car dealer scenario is no different than mine, just a different take on the story.
Schoolboy error. You would not sell the car back at the same price if the currency you would get paid back in had been devalued by 50% overnight. And if, instead, the Bitcoin had appreciated in value by 100%, the dealer would be dumb to buy your car back at the old price.Quote: EvenBobSay you buy a Bitcoin for $60,000 and go to a dealership that deals in Bitcoin and give them your Bitcoin for a $60,000 car. Overnight the price drops to $30,000 and you go back to the dealership and he gives you your Bitcoin back in exchange for your car.
Quote: OnceDearSchoolboy error. You would not sell the car back at the same price if the currency you would get paid back in had been devalued by 50% overnight. And if, instead, the Bitcoin had appreciated in value by 100%, the dealer would be dumb to buy your car back at the old price.
Can you cite some examples of currencies dropping 50% overnight?
No $;o)Quote: billryanCan you cite some examples of currencies dropping 50% overnight?
Quote: billryanCan you cite some examples of currencies dropping 50% overnight?
Bitcoin!
There is nothing to prevent the government from banning Crypto ownership and transactions, as they did with gold in 1933, when it became a criminal offense for Amercan citizens to own or trade gold anywhere in the world. It was not until 1975, that Americans could freely own and trade gold.
They could use drug trafficking, tax evasion, or the recent cyber ransom attacks for their reasons.
Quote:dollar bills are printed with magnetic inks as a way to reduce counterfeiting. Fold the dollar bill in half as shown and hold the neodymium magnet near the bottom of the bill. Notice how the bottom of the bill moves when the iron in the bill is attracted to the magnet.
Quote: OnceDearSchoolboy error. You would not sell the car back at the same price if the currency you would get paid back in had been devalued by 50% overnight.
Sigh. It's a fantasy example made extremely simple so almost anybody could understand it. I will try and make it even simpler next time..
Quote: EvenBob$34,000 today up from $9,000 a year ago. Darkoz is squealingly happy because a lot of people made money this year. He cannot wait until Bitcoin is the official currency of the USA and the gallon of milk he bought last year costs 1/3rd as much today. This will make him grin ear-to-ear.
Above quote adjusted by me on purpose to make a point!!!
