24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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November 11th, 2012 at 1:47:01 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

Can you imagine some asshole asking to see my hand, after I have bluffed someone into laying his hand? REALLY !



Again, we aren't talking about this situation, only where there's an actual showdown.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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November 11th, 2012 at 1:48:56 PM permalink
Any situation, if I don't care to show my hand, it's going in the muck. End of discussion.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 12th, 2012 at 6:14:55 AM permalink
This comes from Robert's Rules of Poker, Chapter 3 - General Rules, section "Showdown", paragraph 5:
Quote: Robert's Rules

Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player痴 hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.



As a dealer in a poker league, I deal about 10 to 15 hours per week. I get asked to invoke this rule about once a month. I've seen it invoked in a casino only once.

I do not view the Bovada situation as a bug per se, but more like bad implementation of the rule.

If I were the system designer, I'd have the hand history specify "Mucked at showdown." I would also have that be a link, where a player would be able to see the cards. But I'd make that link/option available only prior to taking action on the next hand.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MangoJ
MangoJ
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November 12th, 2012 at 7:58:21 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

If I were the system designer, I'd have the hand history specify "Mucked at showdown." I would also have that be a link, where a player would be able to see the cards.



Why not simply automatically show all live hands at showdown. If the poker rules effectively say that you cannot fold your hand at showdown, why even offer the option to "muck" by the software ?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 12th, 2012 at 8:52:26 AM permalink
Quote: MangoJ

Why not simply automatically show all live hands at showdown. If the poker rules effectively say that you cannot fold your hand at showdown, why even offer the option to "muck" by the software ?

Because that's not what the rules state. After someone shows a hand, it's perfectly acceptable to muck your hand and admit defeat rather than show the hand.

In a cash game, it occasionally happens that a bluffer makes a bet, but when he's called, he'll muck his hand rather than show. The other player will win, but is required to show his hand. It was this type of situation where I witnessed a player ask to see the bluffer's hand, invoking the rule I stated. Note that in a tournament, whoever makes the last bet, is required to show first.

Of course, it sometimes happens that a caller will call with crap, just to see the bettor's hand and/or just to dump chips to the other player who is a friend.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MangoJ
MangoJ
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November 12th, 2012 at 9:01:03 AM permalink
But then this rule is handled incosistent. If only two hands are in the pot, and one is all-in, both hands are very often revealed (at least on TV). Why don't they get the chance to fold or muck their hands on the river ?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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November 12th, 2012 at 10:06:01 AM permalink
You're talking about tournament play, which has different rules. In a tournament, when there's an all-in and all action is completed, all hands are exposed before the remaining cards are drawn.

Sometimes, with an all-in and a call at the river, one player will show the winning hand, and the other will muck. And, despite the rules requiring the other player to show, that doesn't always happen unless someone says something. Note that this is a completely different rule than what I had quoted above. Often, someone WILL say that the hand needs to be shown.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MangoJ
MangoJ
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November 12th, 2012 at 10:55:53 AM permalink
Thanks for clarification. Obviously I'm not much of a poker player :)

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