Galewind Pontoon even money after split house edge delta
July 28th, 2012 at 7:09:45 PM
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I've verified that, although it's not reflected in their posted rules, at least in Galewind's practice casino, Pontoons after a split pay even money, and was wondering how this affected the house edge, and whether it affected strategy at all:
Also, on a semi-related note, how many hands are expected to be won under the Wizard's BS? I get the feeling a large part if not most of my winnings comes from bought tricks (i.e., doubled Charlies for 4x).
EDIT: Update. Apparently, it pays double only if it's in the center? Dunno...
UPDATE: And now it just reneged on a high-card win on the right entirely (no pic). I'm starting to think this may be a bug.
Also, on a semi-related note, how many hands are expected to be won under the Wizard's BS? I get the feeling a large part if not most of my winnings comes from bought tricks (i.e., doubled Charlies for 4x).
EDIT: Update. Apparently, it pays double only if it's in the center? Dunno...
UPDATE: And now it just reneged on a high-card win on the right entirely (no pic). I'm starting to think this may be a bug.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
April 9th, 2013 at 1:15:37 PM
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I'm sorry to dredge this up from the past. A colleague brought it to my attention, so I thought that I should provide a response.
My guess is that the Player (24Bingo) is used to other Casinos which have a tendency to display "WIN!" amounts for table games that are X-For-Y rather than our use of X-To-Y. We view a table game's "Win" as the amount by which your bank account has increased. (This is also why all of our X-For-Y games - Slots, Video Pokers, Keno - do NOT use or display the word "Win", but rather the word "Paid".)
In the first picture:
- You can see that the Player won $1000 on the Split hand ($500 bet at Pontoon's 2:1), but lost the $500 Deal hand. The total win here is $500, which is what is displayed in the Win row to the left.
- After the ante the Player had $500 on the table. After the Split the Player had $1000 on the table. At the end of the game, the Player has $1500 on the table ($500 split bet + $1000 split win). You can see this as the sum of the $1000 Ante circle chip and the $500 win chip to the left.
In the second picture:
- You can see that the Player won $500 (1:1) on the Split hand, and also won $1000 ($500 at Pontoon's 2:1) on the Deal hand. The total win here is $1500, which is what is displayed in the Win row to the left.
- After the ante the Player had $500 on the table. After the Split the Player had $1000 on the table. At the end of the game, the Player has $2500 on the table ($1000 bet + $1500 win). You can see this as the sum of the $1000 Ante circle chip and the $1500 win chips to the left.
Many (most? all?) software providers display an X-For-Y result in a table game, which to me makes no sense. (Actually, as a Player, it pisses me off a little bit. Do they think I'm that stupid?) If I ante $500 in Blackjack (or Pontoon) and win on an 18 to a Dealer's bust, it is not uncommon to see a "WIN!" display somewhere on the screen telling me that I won $1000. I didn't win $1000 - I won $500.
We have a long Help file that addresses this. This help file is not public yet - it is going up with our next deployment.
Chris
My guess is that the Player (24Bingo) is used to other Casinos which have a tendency to display "WIN!" amounts for table games that are X-For-Y rather than our use of X-To-Y. We view a table game's "Win" as the amount by which your bank account has increased. (This is also why all of our X-For-Y games - Slots, Video Pokers, Keno - do NOT use or display the word "Win", but rather the word "Paid".)
In the first picture:
- You can see that the Player won $1000 on the Split hand ($500 bet at Pontoon's 2:1), but lost the $500 Deal hand. The total win here is $500, which is what is displayed in the Win row to the left.
- After the ante the Player had $500 on the table. After the Split the Player had $1000 on the table. At the end of the game, the Player has $1500 on the table ($500 split bet + $1000 split win). You can see this as the sum of the $1000 Ante circle chip and the $500 win chip to the left.
In the second picture:
- You can see that the Player won $500 (1:1) on the Split hand, and also won $1000 ($500 at Pontoon's 2:1) on the Deal hand. The total win here is $1500, which is what is displayed in the Win row to the left.
- After the ante the Player had $500 on the table. After the Split the Player had $1000 on the table. At the end of the game, the Player has $2500 on the table ($1000 bet + $1500 win). You can see this as the sum of the $1000 Ante circle chip and the $1500 win chips to the left.
Many (most? all?) software providers display an X-For-Y result in a table game, which to me makes no sense. (Actually, as a Player, it pisses me off a little bit. Do they think I'm that stupid?) If I ante $500 in Blackjack (or Pontoon) and win on an 18 to a Dealer's bust, it is not uncommon to see a "WIN!" display somewhere on the screen telling me that I won $1000. I didn't win $1000 - I won $500.
We have a long Help file that addresses this. This help file is not public yet - it is going up with our next deployment.
Chris
April 11th, 2013 at 2:33:42 PM
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This thread has been moved to On-Line Gambling at the request of Binary128. I doubt that 24Bingo would mind this thread being moved to this new venue, and since Galwind Software deals only in on-line games, (and the request was made by the owner of Galewind Software), I believe this to be a more appropriate venue, anyway.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
April 12th, 2013 at 5:14:36 AM
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Mission146 - Thanks for the helping hand.
I asked that this post be moved to a more active area of the forum. I'm very concerned with the confusion expressed by 24Bingo in their post.
In the first picture, they conclude that a split to a Pontoon pays even money, even though our Help files specifically state that a split to a Pontoon pays 2:1. In other words, 24Bingo has concluded that in the first picture they have been ripped off.
In their second picture they have also concluded that they have been ripped off because the split that was supposed to pay 1:1 did not pay anything.
All of the graphics in both of these pictures - the ante circle bet, the hand labels, the winning chips sliding down from the top, the Bank/Ante/Total Bet/Win display to the left - do NOT present what 24Bingo expects to see. Money remaining on the table, money added to the table, and the summary data to the left - to 24Bingo this is not "right".
(You can see in my follow up post that 24Bingo was not ripped off in any of these games. I conclude that it is not the reality of the games that is the problem, but their perception by 24Bingo.)
Unfortunately, what is "right" is not expressed by 24Bingo. So, I was hoping for some comments here. To me this is crystal clear, but I am not the customer.
You can see it for yourself at our Web Site Demo. Click "Launch Demo Casino", select the "Blackjack Games" button in the lobby and load Pontoon.
Chris
I asked that this post be moved to a more active area of the forum. I'm very concerned with the confusion expressed by 24Bingo in their post.
In the first picture, they conclude that a split to a Pontoon pays even money, even though our Help files specifically state that a split to a Pontoon pays 2:1. In other words, 24Bingo has concluded that in the first picture they have been ripped off.
In their second picture they have also concluded that they have been ripped off because the split that was supposed to pay 1:1 did not pay anything.
All of the graphics in both of these pictures - the ante circle bet, the hand labels, the winning chips sliding down from the top, the Bank/Ante/Total Bet/Win display to the left - do NOT present what 24Bingo expects to see. Money remaining on the table, money added to the table, and the summary data to the left - to 24Bingo this is not "right".
(You can see in my follow up post that 24Bingo was not ripped off in any of these games. I conclude that it is not the reality of the games that is the problem, but their perception by 24Bingo.)
Unfortunately, what is "right" is not expressed by 24Bingo. So, I was hoping for some comments here. To me this is crystal clear, but I am not the customer.
You can see it for yourself at our Web Site Demo. Click "Launch Demo Casino", select the "Blackjack Games" button in the lobby and load Pontoon.
Chris
April 12th, 2013 at 5:51:13 PM
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In the first picture, the BJ-Pontoon paid 2:1 on the $500 wager. The other $500 bet lost.
In the 2nd picture, the Blackjack paid $1000 and the win paid $500.
Galewind is not separating the wager as a normal B&M casino would.
In the 2nd picture, the Blackjack paid $1000 and the win paid $500.
Galewind is not separating the wager as a normal B&M casino would.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
April 13th, 2013 at 3:44:12 PM
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Quote: 98ClubsIn the first picture, the BJ-Pontoon paid 2:1 on the $500 wager. The other $500 bet lost.
In the 2nd picture, the Blackjack paid $1000 and the win paid $500.
Galewind is not separating the wager as a normal B&M casino would.
I infer from what you've said that ...
1. because all of the bet chips are always displayed in the same place (the Ante circle).
2. because all of the win chips are always displayed in the same place (to the left of the deal hand).
... and not separated and associated with a specific hand, that this is what has caused the confusion.
In the second picture of the first post above, the Player concluded that the split hand return was zero because all of the win chips were displayed to the left of the deal hand. From this they concluded that the game was either rigged or broken. They saw "chips" and not "numbers" because they did not note that the return for the Pontoon in the deal hand was 3 to 1.
Things get a bit more complicated in the condition exemplified in the following screen shot:
The total of the win chips that slide across the table has to equal the "Win" row in the display to the left. The total value of the chips on the table has to be equal to the total bet plus the X-To-Y win (or loss). There is a lot of balancing going on here.
Still, the "voice of the customer" has told me that they think that our current game is either rigged or broken. Very frustrating.
Chris
