RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
October 13th, 2018 at 1:45:28 PM permalink
Nah, no way. Itís true to an extent, where the player spreading $5 to $40, okay sure, let him play if you think heíll promote others to play or whatever.

But if they let anyone and everyone play? Youíll have every seat of every table filled with APs spreading $25 to $5,000. No casino can sustain that kind of action.

Where casinos mess up is they do things to slow down their games unnecessarily. Offer good or at least decent games, put the cut card near the end, and either use an ASM or a shuffle that doesnít take 10 minutes to complete. Oh yeah, and hire competent people that know a thing or two about game protection. Itís incredibly easy to spot a card counter ó 90% if the time you can just tell, without seeing him play.
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4627
October 13th, 2018 at 1:46:40 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Not from what I remember in the doc I saw

He used 20% rebate combined with alterations to the rules that knocked the house advantage to almost nothing

Supposedly they also had some rule about dealer mistakes that he capitalized on turning it plus ev for him

That last part always sounded suspect to me but that's the way it was described

As I read it, the killer punch was the 20% loss rebate, which all on its own was a player advantage of between 10% and 20%. Counting and bet ramping would be an unneccessary red flag if he did that, and not a patch on the loss rebate advantage.
What several commentators struggle with is that just having the loss rebate there was valuable. If he had the luck to not need to call on it is incidental. Loss rebates rock, but they are oft derided and little understood. Thank goodness: That keeps them available.

Also, I read that he ruthlessly exploited dealer errors, though how many of those happened at such astronomical wagers, is a question. I can't see many going unspotted by the management.

I reckon the legends about APs, even DJ, are fantastic adverts for the casinos and good value to them.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
TigerWu
TigerWu
Joined: May 23, 2016
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 4022
October 13th, 2018 at 2:32:47 PM permalink
Ah, okay, I just read a little more about Don Johnson and apparently he specifically says he does not count cards.

The favorable rules negotiations were enough to win.
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
  • Threads: 168
  • Posts: 1206
Thanks for this post from:
Forager
October 13th, 2018 at 2:41:27 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Ah, okay, I just read a little more about Don Johnson and apparently he specifically says he does not count cards.

The favorable rules negotiations were enough to win.



I have read he didnít count cards but the people he brought with him were counting and hole carding this ap is not an ap to me but a team of ap he was the distraction
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 244
  • Posts: 7491
October 13th, 2018 at 3:08:52 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I have read he didnít count cards but the people he brought with him were counting and hole carding this ap is not an ap to me but a team of ap he was the distraction



A link to where you read that

First I heard of this
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
  • Threads: 168
  • Posts: 1206
October 13th, 2018 at 3:43:19 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

A link to where you read that

First I heard of this



Iím not at my laptop but I will find it when I get there after I put out this fire. I am pretty sure I have read the same thing in about 2 or 3 articles. I want to believe blackjack can be beat too but I have been disappointed by this story because itís all over and no one ever says thatí was what he was doing only the articles do
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
  • Threads: 168
  • Posts: 1206
October 13th, 2018 at 3:54:28 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

A link to where you read that

First I heard of this



https://www.888casino.com/blog/burning-down-the-house-the-amazing-story-of-don-johnson

Edit

And the way I see it, he might be saying he didnít count cards, and he may not have, but was still receiving signals of what to do from people who were. Maybe he didnít cheat or whatever legally and thatís why heís in the hall of fame or whatever. He probably patched up a costly legal hole all while making the media speculate as to what he did and someone cane up with the story of cash back and the rest ran with it. I donít know.

Counting, hole card reading, sequencing is whatís claimed in that article link.

Edit 2

What am I saying weíre talking about a winner technically it can be beaten but the only lesson here is that you have to cheat well card counting is not cheating but if you are specifically by design not supposed to know the sequence or hole card then Iím saying you cheat I guess
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Oct 13, 2018
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 549
October 13th, 2018 at 8:25:21 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Not from what I remember in the doc I saw

Supposedly they also had some rule about dealer mistakes that he capitalized on turning it plus ev for him

That last part always sounded suspect to me but that's the way it was described



There was not a rule, he just was able to take advantage of enough dealer mistakes to make money. His main income came from his loss rebates. He was able to negotiate a deal that the casinos could not possibly make any money from him long term.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
OnceDear
Administrator
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 4627
October 13th, 2018 at 9:21:34 PM permalink
The article previously linked to by Heatmap, attributes Johnson's success to card counting, hole carding with a spotter, and shoe sequencing by another spotter. I believe that while he may have done those things, the true secret to his success was the loss rebate as explained in this article. The author of that article actually corresponded with DJ.

Card counting worth player edge of maybe 2% : Loss rebate worth player edge of easily 15%. You decide.
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
  • Threads: 168
  • Posts: 1206
October 14th, 2018 at 10:56:30 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

The article previously linked to by Heatmap, attributes Johnson's success to card counting, hole carding with a spotter, and shoe sequencing by another spotter. I believe that while he may have done those things, the true secret to his success was the loss rebate as explained in this article. The author of that article actually corresponded with DJ.

Card counting worth player edge of maybe 2% : Loss rebate worth player edge of easily 15%. You decide.



im going to assume he was smart enough to know all of these events before they happened. he had people who could cruch the numbers and tell him exactly what to do in order to become successful, whether it was loss rebates, plus the other stuff that is claimed in the 888 article. i believe it all.

the thing that gets me is the amount of time in between the articles. its like he couldnt really tell anyone for a specified period of time or something and then all of a sudden bam we get changing stories. its like a person on the stand who was compelled by someone who was threatening them and then there is no longer a threat and they change their story. <- all speculation though and makes for a cool story in my mind ;)

  • Jump to: