If I ran a casino...(Split thread)
Quote: mickeycrimmWhich begs the question to be asked again. If the game is uncountable then why in the hell are you guys passing out pencils and paper? What the hell would that do for anybody? What? Are you guys hustlers? Are you punks trying to angle shoot someone? Put it up, Danny Boy. Oh, no!! Don't tell me. You punks wouldn't be trying to give someone false hope, would you? Danny Boy! Are you a hustler?
I said the base game of Baccarat is uncountable, - NOT "countable," as blackjack is. In Baccarat, tracking the cards is allowed. Baccarat is not Blackjack.
In Baccarat, both sides draw by static drawing rules with no valid key cards - like 10-value cards versus low cards. tns are 0 in Bacc.
In Blackjack, the player hits and stands by his own rules while the dealer hits by a static rules (draws until 17); furthermore, high cards and low cards powerful key cards in the game.
The fact that it is legal to "back off" or "trespass" a competent player in Nevada makes me think the state is a political backwater entirely controlled by the gaming industry at the expense of the consumer. Basically Nevada is saying: "You are free to play blackjack as long as you play badly enough."
Quote: sodawaterSo glad I play in NJ where a blackjack player may not be "backed off" or "trespassed" for having the nerve to play his hands to the best of his mental abilities according to the posted rules. You could mouth the count out loud if you wanted and they'd have to keep dealing to you.
The fact that it is legal to do so in Nevada makes me think the state is a political backwater entirely controlled by the gaming industry at the expense of the consumer. Basically Nevada is saying: "You are free to play blackjack as long as you play badly enough."
This may be true, but New Jersey's gaming industry - with its player-friendly rules - is in financial shambles and loss of patronage in comparison to NV.
Quote: PaigowdanWe're not in the same business.
You see, casinos provide us gambling - a service available to us all!
but AP players provide a service to no one, except to themselves.
THAT's the difference.
Keep on dreaming, baby.
Quote: PaigowdanThis may be true, but New Jersey's gaming industry - with its player-friendly rules - is in financial shambles and loss of patronage in comparison to NV.
haha and if you think NJ's gaming industry woes are caused by "player-friendly rules" and not due to the fact that every single state that surrounds it legalized casinos in the last few years, you're even crazier than I thought.
Quote: PaigowdanAnd I thought this was Wall Street's job. ;)
(Believe it or not, I just purchased the book "Wolf of Wall Street" by Jordan Belfort, in preparation to seeing the movie. Seriously, it looks like a great read.)
Now THAT I can see people seeing.
However, I have gaming licenses, instead of getting into the black book.
Keep clucthing for straws. You might just get there. Danny boy, you are the king of the false premise.
I think this is what he was referring to. It seems the casinos will let suckers think they can gain an advantage and give them fake tools to try, when in reality they cant. Once there is a possibility they change the rules.Quote: PaigowdanI said the base game of Baccarat is uncountable, - NOT "countable," as blackjack is. In Baccarat, tracking the cards is allowed. Baccarat is not Blackjack.
In Baccarat, both sides draw by static drawing rules with no valid key cards - like 10-value cards versus low cards. tns are 0 in Bacc.
In Blackjack, the player hits and stands by his own rules while the dealer hits by a static rules (draws until 17); furthermore, high cards and low cards powerful key cards in the game.
Quote: AxelWolfI didnt really need a history lesson. Most people on this forum know the history and actually participated in counting and other things.
I disagree. Many questions and posts indicated that neither Blackjack game history, or the rights of casinos as business and employers were understood.
Quote: AxelWolfThe casinos could just make all blackjack games uncountable.
I agree here. But you'd disagree with wide-spread CSM usage, crap BJ rules, and shallow penetration as being better than flat-betting, back offs, and 86-ing in spite of risks.
Quote: AxelWolfThey don't because AP's have glamorized Black Jack and made more and more popular with the public so there is a demand for it. If all casinos thought they could get away with not offering it, they would.
Glamorization of Blackjack as a game is a good point and a problem point. The good with the bad aspects.
Quote: AxelWolfIf not for AP's, I doubt you would have your JOB
Not true.
A little more history: as commonly known, I am an ex-dealer who currently works as a game designer for a game distributor.
When I dealt, I dealt blackjack for only a few years before becoming an exclusive Craps, poker, and Pai Gow Poker dealer. Few BJ dealers knew dice and PGP well.
So no, they needed me then on dice and Pai Gow, (as few BJ-primary dealers knew PGP well, or dice at all).
Quote: AxelWolfI think this is what he was referring to. It seems the casinos will let suckers think they can gain an advantage and give them fake tools to try, when in reality they cant. Once there is a possibility they change the rules.Quote: PaigowdanI said the base game of Baccarat is uncountable, - NOT "countable," as blackjack is. In Baccarat, tracking the cards is allowed. Baccarat is not Blackjack.
In Baccarat, both sides draw by static drawing rules with no valid key cards - like 10-value cards versus low cards. tns are 0 in Bacc.
In Blackjack, the player hits and stands by his own rules while the dealer hits by a static rules (draws until 17); furthermore, high cards and low cards powerful key cards in the game.
There no "sucker" attitude involved with this.
Since there's no risk tracking cards on Baccarat, then denying the players the right TO track them would be doing them a disservice when safe to do so, so the casinos graciously allow what the players are want, and are comfortable with doing here.
Most Bacc players don't use paper tracking notepads. I don't when I play Bacc.
Besides, there's a tracking board on Bacc tables, - just as there is on Roulette.
Quote: PaigowdanQuote: AxelWolfI think this is what he was referring to. It seems the casinos will let suckers think they can gain an advantage and give them fake tools to try, when in reality they cant. Once there is a possibility they change the rules.Quote: PaigowdanI said the base game of Baccarat is uncountable, - NOT "countable," as blackjack is. In Baccarat, tracking the cards is allowed. Baccarat is not Blackjack.
In Baccarat, both sides draw by static drawing rules with no valid key cards - like 10-value cards versus low cards. tns are 0 in Bacc.
In Blackjack, the player hits and stands by his own rules while the dealer hits by a static rules (draws until 17); furthermore, high cards and low cards powerful key cards in the game.
There no "sucker" attitude involved with this.
Since there's no risk tracking cards on Baccarat, then denying the players TO track them would be doing them a disservice if safe, so they do what the players are comfortable with here.
Yeah there is you pretend you can get an advantage so players bet big. But fine how do you feel about this case http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/golden_nugget_suing_card_manuf.html casinos provided players with cards to track the hands and they found a way to use this information. They broke no rules, again casinos gave them the tools to track everything, and they were clearly APing here. So again why do you only let people do things when the only thing created is the illusion of an advantage.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: PaigowdanWe're not in the same business.
You see, casinos provide us gambling - a service available to us all!
Gambling isn't a service, what are you talking
about. It's a for profit business, plain and simple.
"A service business is a business that sells services directly to consumers or other businesses."
What does a casino sell? Nothing.
Bob that's the attitude those idiots have. Providing a service my ass. They are trying to fleece me.
Quote: PaigowdanThe buffet will only 86 you if you put food into your pockets, - as that's AP play.
Bulls--t
Quote: EvenBobI think Dan is a moral person and the only
way he can continue to work in the industry
is to convince himself his side of it is all
angels and light. He's knows what it really
is and he's in denial about it.
Amen.
Quote: TwirdmanThey broke no rules, again casinos gave them the tools to track everything, and they were clearly APing here. So again why do you only let people do things when the only thing created is the illusion of an advantage.
this case was discussed here in detail.
I think all involved in that case were greedy morons, players and casino workers alike.
Quote: PaigowdanBob, are you kidding? There are some cut-throat people in this business, as well as a few saints.
One of the cutthroats wouldn't be you, would it?
How do you feel about Ivey in London and his AP game of baccarat? He didn't even touch the cards! Employees of the casino handled the cards the entire time, and there was no conspiracy, either. Just a weak casino with weak game-security procedures.
Do you think Ivey is "scum" for being smart enough to bet big when he knew he'd get a power card in baccarat? What is the moral difference between what Ivey was doing and what "hunch" players do all the time, jumping their bets up when they think they're going to get a good hand? Sure, the hunch players are just guessing, but are they also "scum" for trying to "steal" from the casino by betting big when they think they are getting a good hand?
Or is Ivey somehow a criminal because he convinced some moronic dealers to turn the 8s and 9s for him in deference to superstition -- superstition being the one thing EVERY casino wishes to encourage to no end, seeing as how it mints them money.
Quote: mickeycrimmQuote: EvenBobQuote: PaigowdanWe're not in the same business.
You see, casinos provide us gambling - a service available to us all!
Gambling isn't a service, what are you talking
about. It's a for profit business, plain and simple.
"A service business is a business that sells services directly to consumers or other businesses."
What does a casino sell? Nothing.
Bob that's the attitude those idiots have. Providing a service my ass. They are trying to fleece me.
then why involve yourself with casinos and gamblers forums?
If you believe they're fleecing you, why step into a casino.
If I thought some pastime or activity was a bad trip or a rip-off, I wouldn't patronage it or its area.
Quote: sodawaterDan,
How do you feel about Ivey in London and his AP play? he didn't even touch the cards! Employees of the casino handled the cards the entire time, and there was no conspiracy, either. Just a weak casino with weak game-security procedures.
Ivey had his assistant make the dealer set the cards' vertical alignment ("Please rotate the card - it's for luck, you see..."), knowing damn well this was disallowed edge sorting. However, the dealers and the floormen were so freaking stupid, they didn't recognize this old card scam method. Blew my mind.
I thought all involved were either greedy or stupid, - and another sorry case for the industry AND its players. A crying shame.
Quote: sodawaterDo you think Ivey is "scum" for being smart enough to bet big when he knew he'd get a power card in baccarat?
Well, let me say his character and integrity is in question as far as I am concerned.
A scam for a grab at easy cash is simply that. That is all what this was. If he got away with it or not is not the point, it's his gambling character.
Do I now think, at least on some level, that he's a cheat? Yeah, sure. So do many people now.
Quote: sodawaterWhat is the moral difference between what Ivey was doing and what "hunch" players do all the time, jumping their bets up when they think they're going to get a good hand?
There was no "hunch" guessing involved here at all. They were edge sorting to know how the deck was stacked coming out again.
You bet on a hunch, a real guess, you're just gambling, and that's fine with me. This wasn't what they did.
Quote: sodawaterSure, the hunch players are just guessing, but are they also "scum" for trying to "steal" from the casino by betting big when they think they are getting a good hand?
No. Not in the least. A hunch is a hunch. Bet what you want on a hunch.
Do you think the player on a poker game is bluffing? Sure, call him. Do you think on roulette that 17 is next to drop? Sure, bet it. Do you think you'll get a straight flush in Pai Gow Poker on the next hand? Sure, play the bonus bet. all good and by the rules. Have fun, be a winner, knock yourself out on this.
Quote: sodawaterOr is Ivey somehow a criminal because he convinced some moronic dealers to turn the 8s and 9s for him in deference to superstition -- superstition being the one thing EVERY casino wishes to encourage to no end, seeing as how it mints them money.
Sure. I think he's a cheat if he did this (and it seems that he did), and that the dealers and floormen had their heads in their asses the whole time this crap went down.
Quote: AxelWolfQuote: PaigowdanCasinos reacted by not removing blackjack, but by disallowing the practice of card counting, where raising and lowering bets in synchronicity with the count was the clue that this disallowed practice was going on.
Once again, big fella. How come this rule is not posted anywhere? You got all the other rules of the game posted. Are you hustlers trying to avoid something?"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
Quote: PaigowdanCasinos??!! That's all any business is concerned about, to prosper, profit, and stay in business. Truly, casino operators have some nerve operating profitably for their employees and shareholders - just like any other business.
Aint' nobody owes you, the casino, the employee's a dime.
Quote: PaigowdanI said the base game of Baccarat is uncountable, - NOT "countable," as blackjack is. In Baccarat, tracking the cards is allowed. Baccarat is not Blackjack.
In Baccarat, both sides draw by static drawing rules with no valid key cards - like 10-value cards versus low cards. tns are 0 in Bacc.
In Blackjack, the player hits and stands by his own rules while the dealer hits by a static rules (draws until 17); furthermore, high cards and low cards powerful key cards in the game.
Which begs, begs, begs for the question to be asked again, again, again. Why in the hell would you guys be passing out pencils and paper if the game is uncountable. If the game is uncountable then why in the hell would you kind folks do that to your players. Fooling them into hoping they can win by tracking the cards? That is a despicable practice. Anyone who does it is lowlife.
Quote: mickeycrimm
Once again, big fella. How come this rule is not posted anywhere? You got all the other rules of the game posted. Are you hustlers trying to avoid something?
because it obvious, known, and unnecessary. You can walk into a casino pit and ask them this question, just to see what they tell you.
Look, if you're an AP using camouflage and false IDs at a casino in order to count, you sure as hell don't need a pamphlet or a sign to tell you that what you're doing is disallowed. Trust me, do not expect to see a sign a Caesars saying, "Oh, and by the way, no AP play allowed! - And have a Great day!" Seriously, do you really expect this?
Guaranteed, if there an issue or problem with your conduct at a casino, the casino management will bring it to your attention.
I was at a Harrah's a few weeks ago, playing near where a lady was playing a $25 slot in the high limit room. Her head was laying on the machine half the time with her eyes closed, slowly spinning away. When she was sitting up, her hand would miss the spin button half the time as she rocked back and fourth. She missed getting her drink straw in her mouth, half the time, every time she went to take a drink. When she lost her credits, she would fumble though her purse as half the contents of her purse would hit the floor one at a time including money. She would have the supervisor help pick everything up, because she was almost falling out of her chair while trying to reach for the stuff. It would take her 5 or 6 tries just to feed in a bill. She was probably one drink away from completely passing out.
I remember commenting to my GF, how is is possible they let someone get that drunk? She said, I don't know, but we cant seem to get one drink.
Quote: mickeycrimmWhich begs, begs, begs for the question to be asked again, again, again. Why in the hell would you guys be passing out pencils and paper if the game is uncountable. If the game is uncountable then why in the hell would you kind folks do that to your players. Fooling them into hoping they can win by tracking the cards? That is a despicable practice. Anyone who does it is lowlife.
again, it's fine on Baccarat, because the game is not viably countable ("safe to do"), AND because the Baccarat players want it and expect it as a courtesy on the game, and that's fine with the casino, so they supply it as a courtesy. what don't you get? If it's fine with the casino, - within the rules - and they give you a tracker or the pad and pencils that their customers want, who are you to begrudge this.
Just don't do it on Blackjack, they're different games with entirely different rules. Comprende?
Quote: PaigowdanBlackjack...was long thought to be safe - and was not played on a compositional basis - until Edward Thorpe
.
Wrong, Dan. BJ always had counters, and the casino
knew it. They were low level, just fruit fly's buzzing
around the casinos ears. Thorp came along and
proved with math, via a computer he had access
to, that BJ was indeed beatable. He interviewed
many Vegas counters for his book, and they begged
him not to write it. But his ego being huge, as is
the case with most geniuses, he wrote it anyway.
Quote: AxelWolfDan, I have seen many cases where casinos are clearly and purposely over feeding alcohol to a big player even when they can barley sit up str8 . That is DEFIANTLY SCUMMY in my book.
I was at a Harrah's a few weeks ago, playing near where a lady was playing a $25 slot in the high limit room. Her head was laying on the machine half the time with her eyes closed, slowly spinning away. When she was sitting up, her hand would miss the spin button half the time as she rocked back and fourth. She missed getting her drink straw in her mouth, half the time, every time she went to take a drink. When she lost her credits, she would fumble though her purse as half the contents of her purse would hit the floor one at a time including money. She would have the supervisor help pick everything up, because she was almost falling out of her chair while trying to reach for the stuff. It would take her 5 or 6 tries just to feed in a bill. She was probably one drink away from completely passing out.
I remember commenting to my GF, how is is possible they let someone get that drunk? She said, I don't know, but we cant seem to get one drink.
I think that's deplorable. Casinos should cut people off when they've had enough. Most do. Did you walk to the pit or to security, or to beverage Services, and do something yourself on this?
Yes, if they don't want it they should post it. They seem to be intent on adding fine print to everything else.Quote: Paigowdanbecause it obvious, known, and unnecessary. You can walk into a casino pit and ask them this question, just to see what they tell you.
Look, if you're an AP using camouflage and false IDs at a casino in order to count, you sure as hell don't need a pamphlet or a sign to tell you that what you're doing is disallowed. Trust me, do not expect to see a sign a Caesars saying, "Oh, and by the way, no AP play allowed! - And have a Great day!" Seriously, do you really expect this?
Guaranteed, if there an issue or problem with your conduct at a casino, the casino management will bring it to your attention.
Instead they just back room and abuse people, sometimes for doing nothing, but winning and NOT suspected of CHEATING or COUNTING. I have proof of this happening.
Quote: PaigowdanThis may be true, but New Jersey's gaming industry - with its player-friendly rules - is in financial shambles and loss of patronage in comparison to NV.
Another false premise by Paigowdannyboy. The Uston rulings were long ago. New Jersey ruled for Uston, Nevada didn't You can chalk that up to New Jersey only had Atlantic City. AC didnt' control the politics of the state. In Nevada the casinos control all the polictics in the state. Judges in Nevada were/are lackies for the casinos.
Quote: AxelWolfYes, if they don't want it they should post it ["No AP" signs]. They seem to be intent on adding fine print to everything else.
I have no problem with this lack of signage, and to be honest, most people don't either. What regular gambler gives a.....
I think the lack of signs are fine. If you are causing them a problem, I think it is very courteous of them to send over a high level management guy to come over to you - and to personally counsel you and advise you on conduct and game play issues, if necessary, - and with your personal security detail, to boot - just like a VIP.
In fact, you should tip them for this, like tuition.
So, why expect signs when you can get such personal service?
Quote: PaigowdanI dealt blackjack for only a few years before becoming an exclusive Craps, poker, and Pai Gow Poker dealer..
In other words, you are just another flunkie casino employee. What's the problem? You ain't getting tipped enough?
Quote: mickeycrimmAnother false premise by Paigowdannyboy. The Uston rulings were long ago. New Jersey ruled for Uston, Nevada didn't You can chalk that up to New Jersey only had Atlantic City. AC didnt' control the politics of the state. In Nevada the casinos control all the polictics in the state. Judges in Nevada were/are lackies for the casinos.
Wait, let's get this on record.
Dan, do you really believe that NJ's gaming industry problems are caused by player-friendly rules, and not something else, like increased competition and/or economic recession?
Where were you last decade, before the crash of 2008, when NJ was reporting record profits? I think they had the same player-friendly rules back then. Or do you think that the Great Recession of 2008 was somehow caused by NJ not allowing casinos to eject card counters?
Quote: mickeycrimmIn other words, you are just another flunkie casino employee. What's the problem? You ain't getting tipped enough?
had a great time overall, got good tips and got fine reviews and notices from all the regular players, (though very few nice comments from the players I alerted my supervisors to, who then called surveillance....), and no regrets overall. Rough work at times, - trust me, casino work is REAL work, but also rewarding and often interesting.
I ended up designing games that became commercially successful, and with the royalties, I was able to leave casino pit work on great terms with management, to work for a game distributor as a casino game designer.
Quote: sodawaterWait, let's get this on record.
Dan, do you really believe that NJ's gaming industry problems are caused by player-friendly rules, and not something else, like increased competition and/or economic recession?
I believe it is due to the competition from Pennsylvania casinos. And Mohegan sun and Foxwoods in Connecticut. And Aqueduct in NY.
And the fact that Atlantic city has too much urban decay, sad to say.
AC can't compete well anymore.
Edit: the low hold on NJ BJ tables didn't help.
Quote: sodawaterDan,
How do you feel about Ivey in London and his AP game of baccarat? He didn't even touch the cards! Employees of the casino handled the cards the entire time, and there was no conspiracy, either. Just a weak casino with weak game-security procedures.
Do you think Ivey is "scum" for being smart enough to bet big when he knew he'd get a power card in baccarat? What is the moral difference between what Ivey was doing and what "hunch" players do all the time, jumping their bets up when they think they're going to get a good hand? Sure, the hunch players are just guessing, but are they also "scum" for trying to "steal" from the casino by betting big when they think they are getting a good hand?
Or is Ivey somehow a criminal because he convinced some moronic dealers to turn the 8s and 9s for him in deference to superstition -- superstition being the one thing EVERY casino wishes to encourage to no end, seeing as how it mints them money.
Plain and simple the casino welched on the bets. But then you must know that the casino manager had paigowdannyboy mentality. The casino holds the all the rights in such disputes. Casino personnel are edumacated. "We ain't like that! We's edumacated!"
Quote: sodawaterWhere were you last decade, before the crash of 2008, when NJ was reporting record profits? I think they had the same player-friendly rules back then. Or do you think that the Great Recession of 2008 was somehow caused by NJ not allowing casinos to eject card counters?
I was in Nevada. The recession hurt all areas of the industry, there was much less discretionary income nationwide - and NJ didn't, couldn't, fully bounce back.
A shame.
As for Card counters, NJ has low table hold on BJ, less profit, (it's online) partly because of liberal rules, partly because of an established, veteran BJ playing population (few ploppies), partly because of the decline of the base city, - and because of so much area competition.
Quote: Paigowdanthen why involve yourself with casinos and gamblers forums?
If you believe they're fleecing you, why step into a casino..[/q
It's the other way around, big fella. I fleece casinos. I can't afford to quit going into them. You don't like it I don't care."Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
What are you drinking?Quote: mickeycrimmIn other words, you are just another flunkie casino employee. What's the problem? You ain't getting tipped enough?
Quote: onenickelmiracleMy understanding is Thorpe did nothing but create a boom in black jack and the game was very minor before the book. Just hearing the game is beatable, Joe Public wants to play misunderstanding how it is beatable and is allowed big bets only when it is suicidal. Without the book, black jack probably wouldn't even exist today.
But with this comes so many operational problems on an established game base that is hard to protect, that gets attacked and hacked, that holds less than other tables in the pit.
Blackjack would not have died; it's an elegant, straightforward game, quick, real easy for a continuous stream of new players to learn, though I think we'd have more crap game action if BJ's popularity didn't surge.
Quote: PaigowdanIvey had his assistant make the dealer set the cards' vertical alignment ("Please rotate the card - it's for luck, you see..."), knowing damn well this was disallowed edge sorting. However, the dealers and the floormen were so freaking stupid, they didn't recognize this old card scam method. Blew my mind.
Where the hell in the casino was the rule posted?
Quote: mickeycrimmWhere the hell in the casino was the rule posted?
Signs disallowing edge-sorting don't need to be posted.
signs warning you not to mark cards don't need to be posted.
signs warning you not to put the cards into you mouth and chew on them don't need to be posted.
Quote: Paigowdanbecause it obvious, known, and unnecessary. You can walk into a casino pit and ask them this question, just to see what they tell you.
Look, if you're an AP using camouflage and false IDs at a casino in order to count, you sure as hell don't need a pamphlet or a sign to tell you that what you're doing is disallowed. Trust me, do not expect to see a sign a Caesars saying, "Oh, and by the way, no AP play allowed! - And have a Great day!" Seriously, do you really expect this?
Guaranteed, if there an issue or problem with your conduct at a casino, the casino management will bring it to your attention.
Bob Nercessian disagrees with you.
Quote: PaigowdanQuote: sodawaterWait, let's get this on record.
Dan, do you really believe that NJ's gaming industry problems are caused by player-friendly rules, and not something else, like increased competition and/or economic recession?
I believe it is due to the competition from Pennsylvania casinos. And Mohegan sun and Foxwoods in Connecticut. And Aqueduct in NY.
And the fact that Atlantic city has too much urban decay, sad to say.
AC can't compete well anymore.
Edit: the low hold on NJ BJ tables didn't help.
If you didn't think player-friendly rules were the cause of AC's gaming troubles, why did you mention player-friendly rules and AC's gaming troubles when I posted I was proud to play there because they couldn't bar counters?
No I ran and scarfed up all the money she missed (that's a JOKE) I'm no rat and Management was well aware of the situation. I have put myself out there in situations like this, only to have it come and bite me in the ass in a casino. Out side of a casino I would be the first person to help someone.Quote: PaigowdanI think that's deplorable. Casinos should cut people off when they've had enough. Most do. Did you walk to the pit or to security, or to beverage Services, and do something yourself on this?
I have seen many situations like this and have been close to at least 4 in the last 5 months. Don't fool yourself It happens in many casinos every night.
I would be willing to make you a prop bet, concerning clearly overly drunk gamblers being served drinks or in a compromising situation.
Quote: mickeycrimmBob Nercessian disagrees with you.
It doesn't matter. besides, it's good business for him to take his POV. I can understand that. Call him if you want or need to.
Quote: PaigowdanSigns disallowing edge-sorting don't need to be posted.
signs warning you not to mark cards don't need to be posted.
signs warning you not to put the cards into you mouth and chew on them don't need to be posted.
Is there a sign posted saying: "As a player you are required to supervise our own dealers, unpaid, and if they make an error, you need to stop playing and alert management"?
Funny thing, until the day I am on a casino payroll I am not supervising their dealers.
Oh good then you can call him and ask him about players being beaten and back roomed for doing ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WRONG.Quote: PaigowdanIt doesn't matter. besides, it's good business for him to take his POV. I can understand that. Call him if you want or need to.
Only if you get a good priceQuote: TwirdmanDan according to you gambling is an entertainment service just like a movie. Well an AP is just getting the most value for his money. Do you fault the guy he reads movie reviews to know what movies to see.
