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AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 13th, 2021 at 12:38:27 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Quote: lilredrooster

please explain - I don't know any way to get an advantage at craps

unless it's some kind of secret that shouldn't be made public for some reason



Note this point from shouselaw who specializes in cases involving charges from NRS anti-cheating laws.

Quote: https://www.shouselaw.com/

Also note that a defendant may be convicted of cheating even if he/she merely attempted to cheat or conspired to cheat. It does not matter whether the accused actually carried out the cheating or whether he/she personally played the gambling game.



Simply describing a process that might work could land you in jail.

Everyone who talks on this message forum should ALWAYS be concerned about the law more than ANY other guideline for behavior on this forum. I have been all over the internet to see good people commiting crimes in ignorance of the law where the law is blind.
link to original post

Nothing I was thinking of involved any cheating. I do not consider anything illegal a legitimate way of gaining an advantage or Advantage Play. I guess there are some grey areas and technicalities I would consider Advantage Play. I.e. If I were to make a +EV sports bet with a bookie, I would call that Advantage Play, even though it's probably illegal. Making cards or rigging a slot machine, I would not consider Advantage Play.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
odiousgambit
odiousgambit 
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October 13th, 2021 at 2:52:56 AM permalink
Ahigh, those of us who were introduced to you via this site grew to like you, heck we lived your life with you to some degree as well [though I didn't keep up all that well with the cheated-by-partner thing that I believe happened]. It's clear you really went through some tough times, which you posted about too, somewhat cryptically. You have my sympathy and I hope things go better for you. I think what you posted here needs explanation, I'd like to hear it, but just know I'm not trolling you or whatever. 

Quote: Ahigh

Playing with an advantage and beating the game are two independent things. 

I believe that I demonstrated an ability to play with an advantage, and at my bet levels, it allowed me to profit playing for 1-hour per day for approximately a year,

how did you get an advantage? I'm assuming you don't mean just getting over-comped. I can pull that off too. 

Quote:

... but just like the house-edge for perfect play it is nothing compared to volatility of larger-action, and to wade through the volatility to get to the edge is EXTREMELY unlikely ....

otherwise I'm OK with these comments up to here

Quote:

given the target demographic's (of the game of craps) average IQ.

Well, what's this about? Bonehead other players cramping your style? Or dealers preventing you from winning? All because they're dumb, low IQ jerks? You gotta explain. 

Quote:

The other thing that I learned in doing this play is that dealers really don't like being required to do their job for such little tips as is required to pull this off at low bet-denominations.

you might elaborate

Quote:

It's just generally-speaking, next-to-impossible to gain an advantage through a lifetime-of-play on craps.

But for a given roll, advantages CAN be had.  And therein lies the attraction.  Especially for big betters who believe in good shooters.

You need to elaborate, because it sounds like you believe one of two things: 
*your dice setting works when you can get everybody else in line
*any shooter can be the hot shooter if you can identify him

Quote:

Phil Ivey lost $1,000,000 during a session when he paid $100 to have me shoot.

You do realize this contradicts your previous statement, unless you mean something like,  Ivey was making the right move selecting me but those dumb, low IQ dealers messed it all up. 


link to original post
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
lilredrooster
lilredrooster 
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October 13th, 2021 at 3:01:11 AM permalink
_________


just about everybody knows that casinos may sometimes thru comps or promos give a player more than he is likely to lose on his trip

that often hinges on calculating what they give you based on their retail prices - and that is dubious

I wouldn't consider their $400 per night hotel rooms worth anywhere near that - the same applies to their $75 dinners

although technically I can see how that could be considered advantage play I don't really consider it as such

to me, advantage play is when you beat the game itself for $$$


.
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 13th, 2021 at 4:05:40 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

_________


just about everybody knows that casinos may sometimes thru comps or promos give a player more than he is likely to lose on his trip

that often hinges on calculating what they give you based on their retail prices - and that is dubious

I wouldn't consider their $400 per night hotel rooms worth anywhere near that - the same applies to their $75 dinners

although technically I can see how that could be considered advantage play I don't really consider it as such

to me, advantage play is when you beat the game itself for $$$


.
link to original post

I'm excluding RFB comps from the equation. Free bets, free play, certain gift cards and other things like free tournament entries all = cash.

Many casinos will give you well above your expected loss in the form of those things. Obviously, they are not going to let you scale up past a certain point and do it all day long. Offers will dry up if you don't play your dice right and learn the system. Even then things change but, there are many casinos you can hop around to since you can't just park yourself at one location all day getting +EV.

it's work moving around from location to location while carefully figuring out the right amount of action needed to be profitable.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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October 13th, 2021 at 5:14:37 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh


https://imgur.com/a/kHneBMQ
https://imgur.com/a/hpXggRL
link to original post



Harassment by PM. Seven-day suspension.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
ben771williams
ben771williams
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October 15th, 2021 at 5:14:29 AM permalink
Of course, if the shares were really "shares", no service would get rich and it would not be a profitable business. There are many people who believe that the price corresponds to what is written, but this is actually far from the case. It's just worth thinking about, and not rushing to choose actions.
MrV
MrV
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Zcore13
October 15th, 2021 at 2:08:24 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Because years ago the anti setting crowd called it cheating because they claimed it was an attempt to alter the odds of the game.



No, the argument went as follows: If dice setting worked as claimed, it would be cheating as there would not be a random roll.

It doesn't, so it isn't.
"What, me worry?"
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
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October 15th, 2021 at 3:03:07 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Quote: AlanMendelson

Because years ago the anti setting crowd called it cheating because they claimed it was an attempt to alter the odds of the game.



No, the argument went as follows: If dice setting worked as claimed, it would be cheating as there would not be a random roll.

It doesn't, so it isn't.
link to original post



No. Dice setting and controlled throws are an expected part of the game. ~ Nevada Gaming Commission

From a report I did years ago:

The former Chief of Enforcement of the Nevada Gaming Control Board, Keith Copher, has given extensive interviews on the subject of the legality of dice control. He has called setting the dice and "controlled shooting" an "expected part of the game" and a legal way to play.

I spoke with him shortly before his retirement several years ago. Here are some exact questions about dice control and his answers:

Q: "Does the Gaming Commission recognize the efficacy of so-called 'dice setting' by gamblers as a means to reliably produce non-random results of dice throws, in the same way it recognizes the efficacy of dice sliding?"

A: "Sliding (dice) is illegal because in sliding they don't bounce or roll the dice, and the dice don't bounce off the back wall. In sliding the same numbers are always known, and that's cheating. But if the dice bounce and hit the back wall that's okay and they can set them (the dice) any way they want to. The difference with a controlled throw is that there is still a bounce and the dice are in the air."

Q: "Does the Gaming Commission then consider 'dice setting' to fall under the definition of 'cheating'"?

A: "No, as long as the dice fly in the air, bounce on the table, and hit the back wall. In some cases the casinos are lenient about the dice not hitting the back wall, and these are still legal throws, no cheating."

Q: "Why is dice sliding banned, but dice setting not banned, if both are considered effective means to alter the random outcome of dice?"

A: "Dice sliding is a method of cheating, but as long as dice fly in the air, bounce and hit the back wall it doesn't matter how they are set. It's not cheating as long as the dice fly in the air and bounce."
MrV
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AxelWolf
October 15th, 2021 at 4:37:08 PM permalink
Your expert did NOT say dice setting was an effective means to alter the random outcome of the dice.

Those are YOUR words, not his, at least based on what you quoted above.

Fact is, he's telling you in a round about way that dice setting does NOT work, therefore they allow it.
"What, me worry?"
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson 
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October 15th, 2021 at 4:43:28 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Your expert did NOT say dice setting was an effective means to alter the random outcome of the dice.

Those are YOUR words, not his, at least based on what you puoted above.

Fact is, he's telling you in a round about way that dice setting does NOT work, therefore they allow it.
link to original post



Let's let everyone call the NGC. They're open 24/7 and will take calls from the public.

The phone number for 24/7 access is 702-486-2020

You've been on my case since AOL had its rec gambling craps newsgroup. That has to be 20+ years.

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