Put bet question
February 26th, 2012 at 10:35:29 PM
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First off, I'm a relatively new gambler who's a big fan of the Wizard of Odds website. Not that I didn't gamble before, but it was only something I did a couple times (some slots or blackjack here and there, a couple poker home games, etc.). Now, I'm fascinated by the various games and numbers that go along with them. I try to play proper strategy, but I do deviate from that sometimes.
With that said, here's a craps situation. I like come betting, so let's say the point is 5, and I have a $5 pass line with $20 odds. Let's say I have come bets on the 6 and 8 with $25 odds for each. I want one more come bet up; why not just do a put bet on the 9? I skip the chance for a winner 7 or 11 on that come bet. However, I don't want a 7, as everything else would lose, and I'd only get that lousy $5 back. An 11 would be fine, but there's only 3 ways to make that as opposed to 4 ways to make a craps number (since I don't want the 7).
With that said, here's a craps situation. I like come betting, so let's say the point is 5, and I have a $5 pass line with $20 odds. Let's say I have come bets on the 6 and 8 with $25 odds for each. I want one more come bet up; why not just do a put bet on the 9? I skip the chance for a winner 7 or 11 on that come bet. However, I don't want a 7, as everything else would lose, and I'd only get that lousy $5 back. An 11 would be fine, but there's only 3 ways to make that as opposed to 4 ways to make a craps number (since I don't want the 7).
February 26th, 2012 at 11:36:31 PM
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Place the 9 for $25.
If it hits, you get paid $35.
Now, compare it to a $5 put with $20 odds: if that hit, you get paid ... $35.
And, it will not be working on an ensuing come out , too, so if the shooter makes his point then hits a natural 7 on the next come out, you are still in action.
Not a bad choice.
If it hits, you get paid $35.
Now, compare it to a $5 put with $20 odds: if that hit, you get paid ... $35.
And, it will not be working on an ensuing come out , too, so if the shooter makes his point then hits a natural 7 on the next come out, you are still in action.
Not a bad choice.
"What, me worry?"
February 26th, 2012 at 11:37:51 PM
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In this case, I think what you really want is just a place bet on the nine. A place bet on the nine is in fact the same exact payoff as a put bet with 4x odds (or 3x on the 4 and 10, or 5x on the 6 and 8). You can see how that works out if you read the section on "Put Bets" on the WoO craps page which I'm sure you've read many times, as have I, but I always seem to come back and learn something new.
I hadn't thought about it this way, but at places that offer crazy odds multiples (or really anything better than 3-4-5), instead of placing a number, why not make a put bet with maximum odds? You'll get a better payoff if the number hits, if I'm thinking correctly. Would be kind of non-standard though.
I hadn't thought about it this way, but at places that offer crazy odds multiples (or really anything better than 3-4-5), instead of placing a number, why not make a put bet with maximum odds? You'll get a better payoff if the number hits, if I'm thinking correctly. Would be kind of non-standard though.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 27th, 2012 at 4:51:07 AM
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Because the flat part of the Put bet must meet table minimums.Quote: AcesAndEights... but at places that offer crazy odds multiples (or really anything better than 3-4-5), instead of placing a number, why not make a put bet with maximum odds?
Essentially, the place bet is a pre-defined put bet. It was created so that it's total value will satisfy the table minimum.
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February 27th, 2012 at 6:19:11 AM
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Ya I'm not a really a Put bet kinda player......But I do occasionally make put bets. I play at a casino that has $1 minimums with 10x odds....I will normally place the 6 and 8 for $6 each, and at a normal $5 limit table I would press each one once. But at a $1 10x odds table I make a $1 put bet with max odds instead of a press
February 27th, 2012 at 6:32:34 AM
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Well, you want to make every bet independent of your other bets, so the come bet would be the best option. Just think of it as being on the come-out roll with no other bets out. 7/11 winner; 2/3/12 loser; anything else is the point. Believe it or not your various come bets are independent of each other even though they seem to be correlated. That five bucks back on the winner (loser?) seven helps you in the long run, and does the natural 11.
A put bet would be not a bad bet if you put 5x or more odds behind it.
A put bet would be not a bad bet if you put 5x or more odds behind it.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
February 28th, 2012 at 6:17:05 AM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsIn this case, I think what you really want is just a place bet on the nine. A place bet on the nine is in fact the same exact payoff as a put bet with 4x odds (or 3x on the 4 and 10, or 5x on the 6 and 8). You can see how that works out if you read the section on "Put Bets" on the WoO craps page which I'm sure you've read many times, as have I, but I always seem to come back and learn something new.
I hadn't thought about it this way, but at places that offer crazy odds multiples (or really anything better than 3-4-5), instead of placing a number, why not make a put bet with maximum odds? You'll get a better payoff if the number hits, if I'm thinking correctly. Would be kind of non-standard though.
Except I think buys on 4 10 are always better than the put bet, unless they allow huge odds. In fact, I think most people that press their bets, would be better off to put the bets once they get to $55 in action on a single number(assuming 10x odds allowed). Nobody ever does this though, because they don't really care, they see it as "playing on house money"
February 28th, 2012 at 8:28:04 AM
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How about buying the 9 for $30.
If the 9 hits, you get paid $44 ($45 - $1 commission).
Would that accomplish your goal?
If the 9 hits, you get paid $44 ($45 - $1 commission).
Would that accomplish your goal?
I don't know everything but I know a lot.
February 28th, 2012 at 8:58:46 AM
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I'm now realizing something...
I play at a $5 3/4/5x table...however, they also allow $30 buy with $1 vig (win only)
It'd be better to just buy-the-point when it's 4/5/9/10 for $30, which would pay me $59/$44 (respectively) rather than always winning $35
I play at a $5 3/4/5x table...however, they also allow $30 buy with $1 vig (win only)
It'd be better to just buy-the-point when it's 4/5/9/10 for $30, which would pay me $59/$44 (respectively) rather than always winning $35
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
February 28th, 2012 at 9:01:00 AM
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Make the bet on the 9 with the lowest house advantage. If you buy-9 AND the commission is only taken on the WIN then you have the 2nd best bet on 9. other than that its a come bet.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
February 28th, 2012 at 9:57:35 AM
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Quote: TIMSPEEDI'm now realizing something...
I play at a $5 3/4/5x table...however, they also allow $30 buy with $1 vig (win only)
It'd be better to just buy-the-point when it's 4/5/9/10 for $30, which would pay me $59/$44 (respectively) rather than always winning $35
They let you do that on the 5 and 9 too? I thought most places only follow the commission-paid-on-win-only policy for the 4 and 10...although I rarely buy numbers, so I very well could be wrong.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 28th, 2012 at 11:36:14 AM
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Yes, all buy/lay are the same...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
February 28th, 2012 at 11:41:33 AM
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Quote: TIMSPEEDYes, all buy/lay are the same...
Not true.
The casinos vary on when the vig is taken. In MS, you can buy the 4/5/9/10 and the vig is only taken on the win.
In PA they take the vig when you make the bet. This greatly increases the HE.
In Vegas, most strip casinos will take the vig on the win for the 4/10, but will make you pay up front for the 5/9.
And it pays to also ask where the rounding occurs. For the Beau Rivage, on the Buy 5 I only paid $4 vig for a $90 bet, whereas the buy 5 for $100 was $5.
Get paid $131 for $90 risked vs
get paid $145 for $100 risked
Not that any of this helps me though. :-( Even though I am playing smarter bets, the money still all disappears the same way when the damn 7 keeps showing up........
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
February 28th, 2012 at 12:40:51 PM
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I've never been to a casino where they do vigs after wins only, and never thought about this til recently, but does the player actually have to say "Buy" to make it a buy? Because say a player starts at $5, presses one unit each hit. If they get to $20 the dealer just has to move the bet an inch and put a lammer on it and now it gets paid better. It almost seems sleazy to not automatically make the $20 4/10 a buy for the new player who doesn't really know what's going on. You don't have to ask for that extra dollar.
February 28th, 2012 at 12:42:26 PM
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I sense that RaleighCraps is considering a trip to the dark side.Quote: RaleighCrapsEven though I am playing smarter bets, the money still all disappears the same way when the damn 7 keeps showing up........
February 28th, 2012 at 1:21:21 PM
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Quote: ewjones080I've never been to a casino where they do vigs after wins only, and never thought about this til recently, but does the player actually have to say "Buy" to make it a buy? Because say a player starts at $5, presses one unit each hit. If they get to $20 the dealer just has to move the bet an inch and put a lammer on it and now it gets paid better. It almost seems sleazy to not automatically make the $20 4/10 a buy for the new player who doesn't really know what's going on. You don't have to ask for that extra dollar.
Some friendly dealers at tables I've played will inform the players that a buy on the 4/10 is better odds than a place bet and will volunteer to switch it for them. This is true even if you always pay the commission - a place bet on the 4 or 10 carries a 6.67% house edge per bet resolved, versus a 4.76% edge on the buy with always-pay commission, and 1.67% if paid on wins only. I wouldn't say the majority of dealers, but I've seen it frequently.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 28th, 2012 at 1:26:59 PM
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Sorry I meant at the CASINO I GO TO...
Buy/Lay is all the same..
$1 for $30 bet or won, collected on win only...
Buy/Lay is all the same..
$1 for $30 bet or won, collected on win only...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
February 28th, 2012 at 3:41:57 PM
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I wonder if there are any casinos in LV that allow the 5/9 to be bought with vig on win?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
February 28th, 2012 at 8:19:58 PM
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Quote: DeMangoI wonder if there are any casinos in LV that allow the 5/9 to be bought with vig on win?
None on the strip that I found.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
February 28th, 2012 at 8:22:27 PM
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Quote: DocI sense that RaleighCraps is considering a trip to the dark side.
Well, I did have one DP bet this past trip. The shooter was shooting from the Don't, so I joined him on the DP. Point was 6, I laid $60 in odds, and collected on the 7 out 4 throws later. The way the table was rolling that was virtually guaranteed money, if there is such a thing. I really have to get past my aversion to playing wrong way....
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
