October 26th, 2011 at 10:59:03 AM
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For argument sake, say I didn't want to make a pass line bet or come bet because I don't want to bet any points besides the 6 or 8. As soon as a point is established, lets say the shooter rolls a 4. Can I then make a direct come bet on the 6 and 8 with max odds or do I have to wait for the shooter to roll a 6 or 8 before I then make my come bet. I know that after a point is established I could then make a pass line bet with max odds on the established point. Further, I know I am giving up my advantage, being paid on a 7/11, on the pass line bet and come bet, but I don't want to have to bet the 4, 5, 9, or 10.

I am not asking about the house edge on this bet. I am asking if and when it is possible to make a come bet w/max odds. Do I have to wait till that point is thrown or can I directly ask for a come bet with max odds on the 6 and 8 after any point is established (obviously if come roll was a 6 or 8 I would just put my money on the pass line)?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

I am not asking about the house edge on this bet. I am asking if and when it is possible to make a come bet w/max odds. Do I have to wait till that point is thrown or can I directly ask for a come bet with max odds on the 6 and 8 after any point is established (obviously if come roll was a 6 or 8 I would just put my money on the pass line)?

Thanks for any comments in advance.

October 26th, 2011 at 11:15:50 AM
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No you cant get a come bet without making a come bet. If you want the 6 and/or 8 you will just need to make a place bet in increments of $6. To get Max odds you have to risk the come or pass line bet and then place your odds on the result. You can make your place bet whenever you want... even before the comeout.

when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because."
— E.E. Cummings

October 26th, 2011 at 11:17:18 AM
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Quote:SONBP2I don't want to have to bet the 4, 5, 9, or 10.

why not? they pay better than the 6 or 8. And it is certainly never worth making a pass line bet late.

OK. Isn't there something about making a 'put' bet? I never go down those roads.Quote:SONBP2For argument sake.

The Dice, the cards, they not only have no sense of justice but are actually endowed with a sense of cruel irony. This devolves from the 'nature of random'. Ironically so, don't you see.

October 26th, 2011 at 11:24:46 AM
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Define pay better? They pay more, but not necessarily better because the odds simply pay the true odds for that point. Its more likely to throw a 6 or 8 then a 4, 5, 9, or 10.

I am not familiar with put bets, but I believe that is an option.

I am not familiar with put bets, but I believe that is an option.

October 26th, 2011 at 11:30:26 AM
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Always use a put bet on a 6 and 8 when the odds allowed are more than 5x if you are placing more than 6x minimum.

On the 6 and 8, a put bet of $5 with $100 odds pays $125. A $108 place bet will pay $126. You save $2.

On the 5 and 9, a put bet of $5 with $100 odds pays $155. A $105 place bet will pay $147. You save $8.

On the 4 and 10, a put bet of $5 with $100 odds pays $205. A $105 place bet will pay $189. You save $16. Of course a $100 buy will pay you $195 after commission after a win. This is a better bet.

If you can find a table with lower minimums and higher odds, you're in heaven.

On the 6 and 8, a put bet of $5 with $100 odds pays $125. A $108 place bet will pay $126. You save $2.

On the 5 and 9, a put bet of $5 with $100 odds pays $155. A $105 place bet will pay $147. You save $8.

On the 4 and 10, a put bet of $5 with $100 odds pays $205. A $105 place bet will pay $189. You save $16. Of course a $100 buy will pay you $195 after commission after a win. This is a better bet.

If you can find a table with lower minimums and higher odds, you're in heaven.

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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

October 26th, 2011 at 11:32:41 AM
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Do not get Place Bets and Come Bets and Put Bets mixed up.

Do not forget that a PassLine bet and a Come Bet are the same bet made at different times. EXACT same bet. Different times.

A Put Bet is a "line bet that has already traveled to your designated point number"... so instead of going through the ComeBet area and traveling to a point number chosen by the dice, it is a stack of chips that you position in the Come area but tell the dealer is a Put Bet on the "X" and it IMMEDIATELY travels to the point number that YOU, not the dice, chose. Not all casinos allow put bets. Not all dealers know how to properly position the flat bet portion and the odds portion of a put bet, so you should know the math if they are not familiar with Put Bets. In making a Put bet you are giving up the right to "win" on a 7 or 11. Only make put bets if the math is right and the dealer knows how to do it right and you are in a casino that allows put bets.

Think of it all in terms of the Pass Line. Its made when there is no Point and the Hockey Puck is saying OFF and the Stickman is intoning "The Dice Are Coming Out".

A Come Bet is made when there already IS a point that has been established, the Hockey Puck is saying ON and is physically resting at whatever the current point number is. A come bet has the same rules. The only difference is:

For a PassLine Bet made on a ComeOUT roll, the Hockey Puck is the object that indicates what point number turned out to be established by the shooter, but for a ComeBet made after the Hockey Puck is already positioned at some Point Number, the ComeBettor has his stack of chips MOVED by the dealer as if it is that Bettor's own personal Hockey Puck indicating what the Bettor's own personal "point number" is for that specific ComeBet he just made.

If the stickman were so inclined and you were shooting, he could point to the hockey puck and say that is your point for the pass line bet you made and then point to your existing ComeBet and say "that is the hockey puck" for you come Bet that you made.

Have I confused you even worse?

Do not forget that a PassLine bet and a Come Bet are the same bet made at different times. EXACT same bet. Different times.

A Put Bet is a "line bet that has already traveled to your designated point number"... so instead of going through the ComeBet area and traveling to a point number chosen by the dice, it is a stack of chips that you position in the Come area but tell the dealer is a Put Bet on the "X" and it IMMEDIATELY travels to the point number that YOU, not the dice, chose. Not all casinos allow put bets. Not all dealers know how to properly position the flat bet portion and the odds portion of a put bet, so you should know the math if they are not familiar with Put Bets. In making a Put bet you are giving up the right to "win" on a 7 or 11. Only make put bets if the math is right and the dealer knows how to do it right and you are in a casino that allows put bets.

Think of it all in terms of the Pass Line. Its made when there is no Point and the Hockey Puck is saying OFF and the Stickman is intoning "The Dice Are Coming Out".

A Come Bet is made when there already IS a point that has been established, the Hockey Puck is saying ON and is physically resting at whatever the current point number is. A come bet has the same rules. The only difference is:

For a PassLine Bet made on a ComeOUT roll, the Hockey Puck is the object that indicates what point number turned out to be established by the shooter, but for a ComeBet made after the Hockey Puck is already positioned at some Point Number, the ComeBettor has his stack of chips MOVED by the dealer as if it is that Bettor's own personal Hockey Puck indicating what the Bettor's own personal "point number" is for that specific ComeBet he just made.

If the stickman were so inclined and you were shooting, he could point to the hockey puck and say that is your point for the pass line bet you made and then point to your existing ComeBet and say "that is the hockey puck" for you come Bet that you made.

Have I confused you even worse?

October 26th, 2011 at 12:24:43 PM
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6 and 8: Bettor must combine a put with with 5X odds to have the same overall house edge of 1.52% as a place bet.

5 and 9: Bettor must combine a put with with 4X odds to have the same overall house edge of 4.00% as a place bet.

4 and 10: Bettor must combine a put with with 19X odds to have the same overall house edge of 1.67% as a buy bet, assuming the commission is paid on a win only. If the commission is always paid then the bettor must combine a put with with 6X odds to match the 4.76% house edge.

5 and 9: Bettor must combine a put with with 4X odds to have the same overall house edge of 4.00% as a place bet.

4 and 10: Bettor must combine a put with with 19X odds to have the same overall house edge of 1.67% as a buy bet, assuming the commission is paid on a win only. If the commission is always paid then the bettor must combine a put with with 6X odds to match the 4.76% house edge.

It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

October 26th, 2011 at 12:40:39 PM
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Can the "non-odds" portion of a Put bet be taken down at any time, like a place bet? I don't think so, but would like confirmation.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci

October 26th, 2011 at 1:10:40 PM
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No, the flat portion that is the non-odds portion can never be taken down once made but then again, why would you ever want to? You've already given up a chance to win on 7 or 11... you've already put money at risk of loss ... and now you want to end all possibility of profit by taking it down?Quote:AyecarumbaCan the "non-odds" portion of a Put bet be taken down at any time, like a place bet? I don't think so, but would like confirmation.

So its a double "no". No you can't do it and No you shouldn't even want to do it.

October 26th, 2011 at 1:34:39 PM
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Really? I would have thought that since you can make a put bet at any time, that you can take it down at any time as well. Besides, when did you "give up a chance to win on 7 or 11? Are you confusing a Put bet with a Come bet?Quote:FleaStiffNo, the flat portion that is the non-odds portion can never be taken down once made but then again, why would you ever want to? You've already given up a chance to win on 7 or 11... you've already put money at risk of loss ... and now you want to end all possibility of profit by taking it down?

So its a double "no". No you can't do it and No you shouldn't even want to do it.

For what it's worth, years ago, I took one of those beginners Craps classes at Stratosphere. I already knew how to play, but I had half an hour to kill....

The two things I got out of it were:

A - They never taught the most basic thing. I.E. The relationship between where you're standing, and where your chips are positioned when a dealer moves them.

B - They got way over the heads of people by explaining that a $6 Place on 6/8 is actually a $1 Put with $5 odds. Similarly, a $5 Place on 5/9 is a $1 Put with $4 odds.

Based upon that little tidbit, and that you can take down / turn off Place bets at will, I'd assume you can do the same with Put bets.

I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
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