Odds on Come Bets

Hello, Newbie here,

I have watched several craps videos and still have one question:

Assume I always leave odds on.
During a come out roll can I back up a come point with odds? I mean there are times when I have several come points with odds and one come point with no odds (yet) and I was wondering if I'm allowing to put down odds during the come out.

I have never played craps in a casino yet, I set up a table at home to practice before vegas.

thank you,

psg

From one reddit user post: It’s better mathematically if you keep your odds working at all times. Just tell the dealers that your odds always work. They’ll but a little chip on them that says “ON.”

I would argue that shooters may intend to throw 7's on the come-out after making their point. If you're the shooter and have come bets up, that may not be the case and you'll be intending to shoot for box numbers and want to collect your odds so you'll want them ON.

I personally try to hit 6 pass line winners in a row using a progression and I think taking odds is slowing me down despite the reduced HA.

Yes, I would like to keep my odds working at all times. Let me ask another way,

If the puck is "off" can I back up a come bet with odds? Or do I have to wait for the puck to be "on"?

In the Wizard's videos it looked like the puck was always "on" when he backed up come bets with odds

Odds are off by default on come-out rolls for the come bets and that's the way over 98% of the players play it. Apparently you can add your odds bet to the come bet that was a former pass line point and tell the dealer to make all your come bet odds bets to be ON and they will put a little ON lammer on those bets. I don't hang around tables enough to see it done.

Don't come odds bets are always ON during come-out rolls so if you wanted them OFF during the come-out you would have to tell the dealer to turn them off, but it defies reason why anybody would do that since the shooter is likely trying to throw a 7-winner for the Don't Comes too. I'm not sure if the rules allow turning these odds off on the come-out rolls either.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

Yes, I would like to keep my odds working at all times. Let me ask another way,

If the puck is "off" can I back up a come bet with odds? Or do I have to wait for the puck to be "on"?

In the Wizard's videos it looked like the puck was always "on" when he backed up come bets with odds
link to original post

Since 3-4-5x is pretty common, I'm going to say no.
The limit of odds you can take changes based on the established point, so I expect they won't let you place the bet until the point is established.

More practically, if the crew understands your intent, you probably want the odds off during the come out. I can't see how you could win; all you could do is lose; they don't typically rate odds.

Caveat: I hate dice.

They're just exempting your come bet odds bets from the mish mash of come-out rolls which can erase all your come-bets. Some people throw 3 to 6+ rolls before establishing a point, and they aren't all horn numbers.

Yes you can put odds on the come bet during the come out roll.

Quote: unJon

Yes you can put odds on the come bet during the come out roll.
link to original post

How is the bet graded? What wins, what loses?

Quote: Dieter

Quote: unJon

Yes you can put odds on the come bet during the come out roll.
link to original post

How is the bet graded? What wins, what loses?
link to original post

Same as any other come bet?

Let me give an example: the point is 6 and you have a come bet out. The shooter hits a 6, so the pass line wins. Your come bet travels to the 6 and it is now the come out roll. You can put odds on that 6 and tell the dealer it is working. You can also put odds on the 6 and tell the dealer “up and off” if you don’t want your odds working.

ETA: looks like unJon beat me to the punch!

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

If the puck is "off" can I back up a come bet with odds? Or do I have to wait for the puck to be "on"?
link to original post

Quote: unJon

Yes you can put odds on the come bet during the come out roll.
link to original post

This ^^^

Yes, you can place odds on your Come bet when the puck is "OFF." I have done this occasionally, even though I leave the odds off on the come out, mainly so I don't forget when the new point is established. A time or two in this situation, I have even had a dealer ask if I want odds on the come bet.

Quote: Dieter

How is the bet graded? What wins, what loses?
link to original post

If you tell the dealer to leave the odds working on the come out, he will place an "ON" lammer (plastic disc) on top of the bet, and it will be graded the same as it would at any other time.

E.g, you have a $10 Come bet down when the shooter rolls a winner 6. Your Come bet travels to the 6, and the puck is set to "OFF." You toss the dealer $50 for Odds and declare "working on the come out," and the dealer will put the "ON" lammer on top of your $50 Odds bet. (Note that this lammer will indicate that the odds are working on all come bets you may have up -- unless you tell the dealer otherwise.)

Now, if a 7 rolls on the come out, you lose the entire bet. If a 6 rolls, you win $10 (Come) + $60 (Odds), and the entire $60 original bets will be returned to you. Typically they will stack the $130 in the Come field in front of you. A good (or well-tipped dealer) may put the stack directly in front of you, or stack $120 in front of you and leave $10 Coming for the next roll if you've given an indication that that's how you play.

Conversely, if you tell the dealer "odds are off," or more commonly, if you just say nothing at all, when the bet resolves on the come out roll, the dealer returns the odds bet to you regardless of whether the Come bet wins or loses.

E.g., in the same scenario as above, but with the odds off, if a 7 rolls, you lose the $10 Come bet, but the $50 Odds bet is returned to you. If a 6 rolls, you win $10 for the Come and the $50 Odds bet is returned to you.

I have definitely put odds on even though it was the come-out roll, specifying I want them on

It's possible some dealer/boxman would not let you, but if so I think wrongly

do this and you will definitely experience confirmation bias in the wrong way, so to speak. In other words the times you see your money scooped away will *seem* like it's too often to you [at least be prepared] and other players may shake their heads too

Quote: Dieter

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

Yes, I would like to keep my odds working at all times. Let me ask another way,

If the puck is "off" can I back up a come bet with odds? Or do I have to wait for the puck to be "on"?

In the Wizard's videos it looked like the puck was always "on" when he backed up come bets with odds
link to original post

Since 3-4-5x is pretty common, I'm going to say no.
The limit of odds you can take changes based on the established point, so I expect they won't let you place the bet until the point is established.

More practically, if the crew understands your intent, you probably want the odds off during the come out. I can't see how you could win; all you could do is lose; they don't typically rate odds.

Caveat: I hate dice.
link to original post

I get rated for odds bets when I play online. But craps is excluded by the terms of most promotions and most online casinos don't even offer it even though they offer almost every other table game and thousands of slot games.

The puck has nothing to do with come bets, except that when the puck is off, I am not allowed to place a fresh come bet. The new bet has to go on the pass line, which is identical in all respects.

Once I have a come point established and take odds, that bet stays active even though the puck is off.

I did a little craps play to demonstrate. The pass line point was the 10. I made a come bet and made the 10 point. I added full 5x odds. When the 10 hit, the puck came off, but my come bet and odds are still active and unresolved.


I hade made another come bet on this last roll, which is why there is another $1 bet on the 10. In a bit of good luck, I hit the 10 again and then the 8 before a 7 came up.

Quote: Mental

The puck has nothing to do with come bets, except that when the puck is off, I am not allowed to place a fresh come bet. The new bet has to go on the pass line, which is identical in all respects.

Once I have a come point established and take odds, that bet stays active even though the puck is off.

I did a little craps play to demonstrate. The pass line point was the 10. I made a come bet and made the 10 point. I added full 5x odds. When the 10 hit, the puck came off, but my come bet and odds are still active and unresolved.

link to original post

the situation encountered is due to what the default is for 'coming out' ... and that is for your established free odds bets to be 'off' because players do generally feel if they root for the 7 to come up, which is what they want for the new line bet at that point, they still want to limit the damage and not lose the free odds bet from a previous come bet. For the dealers, it keeps them from having to take down the bets or put markers on them. So it is a complication from what is really a player misunderstanding/superstition about what is smart to do.

So the situation I believe the OP is referring to is, when a point has just been established. At this point, the normal expected behavior is to not place the free odds bet, why confuse everybody when that bet will just be 'off' by default. But I and others have confirmed that you can ask to place the free odds bet and tell the dealer you want it 'working' as that seems to be the term the dealer expects.

Here are two more screenshots verifying that I can add odds to a come bet even though the puck is off.

The 9 point hits for the pass line while I have a new come bet. The puck comes off.

I add odds on 9 to come during the new come-out roll for the pass line.

if you can make the odds bet and have it automatically be on during come-outs, or be made and it's off by default, that is not a regular thing to be seen at a casino

also, we posted at about the same time, so you might want to check upthread

Quote: odiousgambit

if you can make the odds bet and have it automatically be on during come-outs, or be made and it's off by default, that is not a regular thing to be seen at a casino

also, we posted at about the same time, so you might want to check upthread
link to original post

Thanks. I have never placed a craps bet on the felt. Even in B&M, I only ever placed bets on an electronic terminal. I was always getting rated on my odds bets, so I always wanted them working.

I think at least one e-craps game makes the odds bets non-working' on the come-out. This was at least ten years ago, so I had forgotten about this nuance. Now I understand what OP is talking about.

Quote: unJon

Quote: Dieter

Quote: unJon

Yes you can put odds on the come bet during the come out roll.
link to original post

How is the bet graded? What wins, what loses?
link to original post

Same as any other come bet?

Let me give an example: the point is 6 and you have a come bet out. The shooter hits a 6, so the pass line wins. Your come bet travels to the 6 and it is now the come out roll. You can put odds on that 6 and tell the dealer it is working. You can also put odds on the 6 and tell the dealer “up and off” if you don’t want your odds working.
link to original post

This seems to address my confusion.
Odds go on the 6, not on any chips in the Come box.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

Yes, I would like to keep my odds working at all times. Let me ask another way,

If the puck is "off" can I back up a come bet with odds? Or do I have to wait for the puck to be "on"?...link to original post

You can add, remove, increase, or decrease your odds at any point of a roll, whether the puck is 'on' or 'off.'

Similarly, you work them or turn them off whenever you wish.

Wow! thanks for all the responses I think that answered my question.

If you play the pass line and back up with 345 odds I believe the house advantage is 0.37%.

Now what if you play the past line and keep making come betss and back up everything with 345 odds, is the house advantage is 0.37%? I would think so but I didn't read this anywhere.

So instead of playing the pass line and making a bunch of come bets I could just play the pass line but bet more money and that would be the same thing?

I'll be playing craps for the first time in November at Mandalay Bay and my worry is I like to drink, and I've read a few posts where chips get stolen at the craps table. My thinking is it may simpler to just bet the past line with a bunch of money and back it up with odds, less distractions and more time to drink.

Has anyone here had chips stolen?

psg

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

So instead of playing the pass line and making a bunch of come bets I could just play the pass line but bet more money and that would be the same thing?
link to original post

Kinda. Higher variance and not as fun, but, yeah, very similar edge.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

Has anyone here had chips stolen?
link to original post

Not me.

Then again, I tend to keep my hand stretched over my chips.

How much were you planning on losing? It's easy to lose $1,000 with table minimum bets ($10 or $15) even with 1 come bet and double odds.
With 3 point Molly/Dolly with triple odds on a $10 table and a 25 shooter starting session that'd be $3,000. (($10 + $30) X 3 X 25)

I was hoping to play with $2500 on a $25 table but it sounds like I would need closer to $5000

I get stuck on bubble craps and with $2500 I'd be looking at $15 PL with $15, $20, $25 Odds because they have a 2X Odds limit, so I could play $30 Don't Odds. With no come bets, that'd be five 10 shooter sessions of $500 that could last 30 to 90 minutes or more each.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

I was hoping to play with $2500 on a $25 table but it sounds like I would need closer to $5000
link to original post

The dealers watch everybody's chips to some degree, and naturally you yourself need to be vigilant, I'd say chip theft is not really a problem. You are much more likely to get accidentally underpaid by a dealer

One of the downsides to Craps is you really do need to bring a respectable bankroll, I'm glad to see you realize that.

Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

I'll be playing craps for the first time in November at Mandalay Bay and my worry is I like to drink, and I've read a few posts where chips get stolen at the craps table. My thinking is it may simpler to just bet the past line with a bunch of money and back it up with odds, less distractions and more time to drink.

Has anyone here had chips stolen?

psg
link to original post

Quote: odiousgambit

The dealers watch everybody's chips to some degree, and naturally you yourself need to be vigilant, I'd say chip theft is not really a problem. You are much more likely to get accidentally underpaid by a dealer
link to original post

I'd also suggest keeping your higher denomination chips in the middle of your rack/stack. It's easier for someone to swipe the last chip on the end than one from the middle.