Bad rule

The received wisdom of 36 years at the craps table about why a pass line bet is required to shoot:
1. The shooter must have skin in the game, and therefore a goal.
2. A contract bet (which includes the Don't) is required to ensure point 1 operates hroughout the pass.

Place bets do not fulfill #2, as one said, unless the casino allows a change that forces the shooter to leave up a place bet throughout the pass. But that just adds to the dealers' workloads, so the casinos reject that solution.

The Don't being removable is only the casino working in their best interest. But it is still a contract bet, and they can refuse to allow the shooter to remove the bet to ensure #1 is still in force.

I have seen a shooter ejected mid-pass exactly once, playing Harrahs' Chester/Philly. He somehow snapped a corner off one die and rolled, and was tackled by security and hustled away. The roll, which was didn't resolve the point, was allowed, but the player was ejected. I don't remember if the next shooter kept rolling to try to make the busted shooter's point of not (this was years ago). The layout had one big ugly scratch down it (he was shooting opposite hook), and they had to get the table re-covered.

Lastly, I have seen one rule that doesn't get mentioned a whole lot, and appears to be optionally enforced: If the next person to shoot has not been betting, the stick will pass them by and offer the dice to the next person down the line. Now, you can not bet for 14 of the 16 people at the table, but you better put up some money when the guy ahead of you shoots if you're determined to roll dem bones.

Anyone else experience this last one?

I've seen it many times.

The Stick may refuse the dice if they or the Box/Dealers verify that there has been "no action". If none, they may go on to the next
person who has made at least minimum passline or place bets. At an Indian casino I've seen them do that if they think there has not
been "sufficient" action.

These days it's prudent to bet on the person right before you when you are trying to minimize betting on others(if you want to shoot).

Quote: onebok

I've seen it many times.

The Stick may refuse the dice if they or the Box/Dealers verify that there has been "no action". If none, they may go on to the next
person who has made at least minimum passline or place bets. At an Indian casino I've seen them do that if they think there has not
been "sufficient" action.

These days it's prudent to bet on the person right before you when you are trying to minimize betting on others(if you want to shoot).
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I've seen it when the player has just squeezed in and turns out he is to the left of the last shooter by coincidence.

What we need is someone to bet the Don't as shooter, get a point set, then decline to roll the dice, and see what the house says and does ... at various casinos

I went to my nearest casino after this discussion about shooting without a place bet and asked the floor person if they'd let me roll dem bones without a PL bet; I offered to make place bets in an amount greater than the minimum required line bet and I agree I would not be permitted to reduce or take them down.

She agreed with me that my proposal would give the house a greater advantage against me than had I made a PL bet, yet she refused my offer without explanation, other than "that's not how it's done."

I think the rule should change as WGAS what the shooter bets, all that is needed is to have new numbers established.

I wouldn't care if the shooter rule were changed. It makes no difference to me.

Also... some casinos do not allow bets on Bonus Craps or Fire Bet without a minimum bet somewhere else on the table.

Quote: AlanMendelson

some casinos do not allow bets on Bonus Craps or Fire Bet without a minimum bet somewhere else on the table.
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Shows how dumb casinos are. We will not allow a -20% wager, unless you make a -1.41% passerine bet!

Quote: DeMango

Quote: AlanMendelson

some casinos do not allow bets on Bonus Craps or Fire Bet without a minimum bet somewhere else on the table.
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Shows how dumb casinos are. We will not allow a -20% wager, unless you make a -1.41% passerine bet!
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I guess Red Rock doesnt want anyone to bet $5 on the All Tall Small ($15 total) and walk out with $1065.

Unfortunately for Red Rock the ATS hits there. Must be loaded dice.

I don't think its a dumb rule at all.

Without that rule, you would have a table full of people chasing the ATS and llaying nothing else. Notinhg to offset if it wins.

16 players all playing the bonus, the casino makes 240 (5-5-5 bet) everytime 7 rolls (plus 1 PL loss) but risks 17,040 if it hits (on the 30-150 paytable)

Quote: PlayYourCardsRight

I don't think its a dumb rule at all.

Without that rule, you would have a table full of people chasing the ATS and llaying nothing else. Notinhg to offset if it wins.

16 players all playing the bonus, the casino makes 240 (5-5-5 bet) everytime 7 rolls (plus 1 PL loss) but risks 17,040 if it hits (on the 30-150 paytable)
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Well put.

A lot of small casinos won't even offer bets like the ATS and Fire DESPITE their big house advantage because they know just ONE HIT could knock out a day's profits.

I remember when the old Gold Strike in Jean had $3 minimum craps. I asked why they didnt offer the Fire Bet? They told me if it hit once for $5000 it would crush them for a week.

Sometimes the edge doesnt matter. But the payoff does. And I realize that's a controversial statement to make on a forum like this one.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Sometimes the edge doesnt matter. But the payoff does. And I realize that's a controversial statement to make on a forum like this one.
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I don't see Risk of Ruin as particularly controversial.
What you saw seems like a pretty common Risk of Ruin concern, although from a direction not often considered by players.