Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1459
  • Posts: 25465
October 23rd, 2022 at 7:14:42 PM permalink
Quote: WABJ11

All the MGM properties have finally changed to no charge on vig/juice up front for craps buys and lay bets. They only charge AFTER the win. This reduces the house edge by half and is a big deal.
link to original post



Sorry for the late arrival.

First, it's my understanding as someone who very rarely plays craps that most casinos do the following:

6 and 8 -- pay the 7/6 place bet odds
5 and 9 -- pay the 7/5 place bet odds
4 and 10 -- charge 5%, based on the bet amount, after a win only, for bets of $20 or more. For less, they pay 9/5 place bet odds.

I see this policy affecting the 5 and 9 only.

The 7/5 place bet odds have a house edge of 4.00%.
If the commission were always charged, the house edge would be 4.76%.
If the commission were charged on wins only, the house edge would be 2.00%.

I'll try to verify this my next visit to an MGM property, but until then, who can confirm that MGM properties charge the Vig after a win only on the 5 and 9?
ďExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.Ē -- Carl Sagan
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 5937
October 23rd, 2022 at 8:24:24 PM permalink
Note to Dieter:

See how Wizard's post appears twice.
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 2392
October 23rd, 2022 at 9:22:52 PM permalink
I believe all casinos would automatically convert a place bet on 4/10 to a buy bet. Even when the commission is collected up front, buying has a lower edge (4.76%) than placing (6.67%).

With commission on win only, itís also more favorable to buy the 6/8 for amounts >$30 and <$40. The same would go for laying the 6/8 for between $36 and $48

Place bets are mostly obsolete at casinos that charge commission on win only. And itís easier math than using the awkward 7:6 ratio for place bets on 6/8
Last edited by: Ace2 on Oct 23, 2022
Itís all about making that GTA
WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
  • Threads: 10
  • Posts: 65
April 5th, 2023 at 1:24:33 AM permalink
The policy at MGM properties remains the same that you pay the commission ONLY on wins for all numbers. Definitely helps as a dont bettor for some insurance on the come out roll.

After it being in place now for about a year this is probably a strategy all casinos should implore. It keeps the game moving faster, people lose slower, and it just makes it easier all around. Whoever thought this up was smart to roll it out. I assume itís working out well for them too since they have not rolled it back.
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 2392
April 5th, 2023 at 10:58:51 AM permalink
Place bets should be eliminated from the table. Buys are lower vig, even on the 6/8 with a $35 bet. No more funny payout ratios of 7/6, 7/5 and 9/5.
Itís all about making that GTA
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 4024
April 5th, 2023 at 1:58:37 PM permalink
I forget what the payout on a buy 6,8 is but it's one of the bets that I still do place instead of buy on the bubble craps machine. I buy the 4,5,9,& 10 to get better payouts on a win. The buy 4,10 pays $1.95 (instead of $1.80) for a $1 bet & the buy 5,9 pays $1.45 (instead of $1.40) for a $1 bet, basically a nickel vig per win at that level. 20 wins of that and I'm already down one $1 bet. So betting PL & odds would take out the vig excluding the PL vig. But it always seems like I'm trying to hit the number twice for the payoff before a 7-out when trying to win an odds bet on a line bet.

If I place the 6 for $6 after the point gets established, and I put $1 on the PL with $5 odds (if it was a 5X odds table, which it isn't) and establish a point of 6, I'd have to hit the 6 a second time to win the $7 on the PB 6 and a second time to win the $7 on the PL + Odds bet. But if I also had a PB 8 up for $6, I'd only have to hit the PB 8 once to win on that, but I'd be $1 ahead if a 7-out came before a 2nd hit, if I wasn't pressing my bet. I usually half-press my 6 & 8 bets, so to come out even with them compared to flat betting, I have to hit one number twice anyway.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Apr 5, 2023
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 4082
April 5th, 2023 at 3:48:40 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Place bets should be eliminated from the table. Buys are lower vig, even on the 6/8 with a $35 bet. No more funny payout ratios of 7/6, 7/5 and 9/5.
link to original post



Last time I was there it was only vig on win for the 4 and 10 buys. Not on 5/6/8/9. Has that changed?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Ace2
Ace2
Joined: Oct 2, 2017
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 2392
April 5th, 2023 at 4:25:24 PM permalink
Read the thread
Itís all about making that GTA
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
  • Threads: 14
  • Posts: 4082
April 5th, 2023 at 4:33:12 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Read the thread
link to original post


Boring
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.

  • Jump to: