I’m a Craps novice and big dark side fan

Questions: (pls point me to sources if already answered)

1. What is “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the “don’t pass line” and backing up with max odds for come out rolls only? How does this vary for 2x, 5x & 10x odds?

2. What is “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the “don’t pass line” and all “don’t come” opportunities and backing all of them up with max odds throughout the session? How does this vary for 2x, 5x & 10x odds? (Assume sufficient bankroll)

3. What is preferred approach to maximize gain or minimize loss during a session?

Thanks Forum!

- Dark Side Maul

Quote:speedycrapUsually, it is break time when I see Darksider.

link to original post

Sometimes a big betting darksider triggers a big winning streak for the right way bettors.

The gossip is the casino fixes the magnets to milk the biggest bettors. So when a big betting don't player shows up the rest of us start smiling.

Gotta love those magnets.

link? I believe this is the same as stating the Expected Value [EV]Quote:DarkSideMaulThe Wizard has posted “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the pass line only and backing up with 2x odds

it's the same for the Don't Pass or the Don't Come.Quote:I’m a Craps novice and big dark side fan

Questions: (pls point me to sources if already answered)

1. What is “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the “don’t pass line” and backing up with max odds for come out rolls only?

The EV is the same. The Variance, the swings up and down, are what varyQuote:How does this vary for 2x, 5x & 10x odds?

It's the total amount bet times the house edgeQuote:2. What is “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the “don’t pass line” and all “don’t come” opportunities and backing all of them up with max odds throughout the session? How does this vary for 2x, 5x & 10x odds? (Assume sufficient bankroll)

you're opening yourself up for wisecracks here, since the only way to do it is to bet less. But I'll add that you should put as much as you can on the free odds versus the line bet. This can be about comfort level thoughQuote:3. What is preferred approach to maximize gain or minimize loss during a session?

You could work out Standard Deviation to get a range of expectations. I'd show how with Craps and free odds, but I'm not absolutely sure I'm doing it right.Quote:Thanks Forum!

- Dark Side Maul

link to original post

The combined edge is so small, especially relative to the variance, I don't even consider it. I'd just say about 68% of your sessions will be +/- $821 and 96% +/- $1,642

But you should always lay odds in multiples of 2, 3 or 6 (on 4/10, 5/9, and 6/8). Otherwise they will round down payoffs (dealers will usually tell you if you've laid a "breakage" amount). The most common scenario is 6x since it's the mirror of 3/4/5 and works for any point number

There's no strategy in craps, other than to make the low-edge bets. The dark side is essentially the exact opposite of the "right" side, the only difference being that a 12 on comeout is a loss for pass and a push for DP.Quote:WABJ11I’ve been playing the dark side for over a decade and I am up a pretty penny, not to mention all the free perks I get. I don’t care if people get angry with me. This is by far the best strategy because when a 7 is rolled (often) you win all your bets. I’ve also found that the variance is a lot more controlled usually.

link to original post

The edge and variance are nearly identical for pass and DP, with or without free odds. True, you win every number when the seven-out comes, but you probably lost a bunch while you were waiting for the seven...and watching the right bettors winning the whole time.

Whatever you've won/lost on the dark side you could have just as easily won/lost on the right side. Think of the right side as heads and the dark side as tails...it's just a coin flip. The only difference is that craps has much higher variance than a coin flip, unless you make only pass/dp bets with no odds

There's no strategy in craps, other than to make the low-edge bets. The dark side is essentially the exact opposite of the "right" side, the only difference being that a 12 on comeout is a loss for pass and a push for DP.Quote:WABJ11I’ve been playing the dark side for over a decade and I am up a pretty penny, not to mention all the free perks I get. I don’t care if people get angry with me. This is by far the best strategy because when a 7 is rolled (often) you win all your bets. I’ve also found that the variance is a lot more controlled usually.

link to original post

The edge and variance are nearly identical for pass and DP, with or without free odds. True, you win every number when the seven-out comes, but you probably lost a bunch while you were waiting for the seven...and watching the right bettors winning the whole time.

Whatever you've won on the dark side you could have just as easily won on the right side. It's a coin flip with more variance, unless you stick to line bets with no odds.

For analytic purposes I consider Odds separately rather than blended with Flats. The degree of Odds Variance can be easily modulated by choosing varying Wager sizes from zero to table rules limits. Such flexibility adds to the joy of playing craps.

Quote:DarkSideMaulThe Wizard has posted “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the pass line only and backing up with 2x odds

I’m a Craps novice and big dark side fan

Questions: (pls point me to sources if already answered)

1. What is “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the “don’t pass line” and backing up with max odds for come out rolls only? How does this vary for 2x, 5x & 10x odds?

2. What is “net gain / net loss per session” for betting the “don’t pass line” and all “don’t come” opportunities and backing all of them up with max odds throughout the session? How does this vary for 2x, 5x & 10x odds? (Assume sufficient bankroll)

3. What is preferred approach to maximize gain or minimize loss during a session?

Thanks Forum!

- Dark Side Maul

link to original post

Hello DSM. Darth Vader welcomes you to the dark side. In my opinion, the key to long-term success on the dark side is not to maximize winnings, but to minimize the losses. For me, that means losing not more than one wager to any one shooter. Even random rollers get can get lucky and hit multiple points. If you chase your losses (especially with progressively higher wagers), you risk busting out. Random rollers at most casinos comprise at least 75% of the players. Eat the one loss and wait for the next victim.

Best of luck,

Darth

How would you characterize the other 25% of the players?

Some shooters have different motives for their throw, so making their point may not be a top priority. They may want to throw 5-7 horn numbers after they establish their point.

Quote:ChumpChangePeople who set their dice and try to roll their point.

Some shooters have different motives for their throw, so making their point may not be a top priority. They may want to throw 5-7 horn numbers after they establish their point.

link to original post

That's a tall order for even the best of DI-Wannabees.

What exactly do you think setting dice and trying to roll something have to do with Darth's 25% of players?

My experience is that playing the Don'ts against DI's and setters has better outcomes than with true chicken-feeders.

Quote:CORedThough it may be that 25% of players try to influence the dice, I suspect that the vast majority of those don't actually succeed. I would be surprised if more than 1% of players actually achieve results significantly different from chance.

link to original post

I’ll take the under.

Quote:ChumpChangeMaybe I could roll 5-7 horn numbers on the Come-out instead of trying for 7's, I get 11's (and 2's & 3's & 12's).

link to original post

Math craps fact. Probability of 7's equal probability of horn #"s

Even when it's a tourist shooting?Quote:ChumpChangeI switch to the Do side after losing two points on the Don't per shooter. Kind of sucks if they don't make anymore points though.

link to original post