MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 131
August 2nd, 2020 at 5:39:55 AM permalink
Building on my previous work, I have invented a new Craps variant that removes all the intimidation from this great game by vastly simplifying the rules. Yet the mathematics remain intact. It's the same game, but simpler, faster as it eliminates pushes, giving players complete control over the Odds bet and with a host of entirely new bets that can be added. All Craps bets can be "converted" into Number Craps equivalents and this result in phenomenal ease in comparing them. It can be played as a live casino show, more on this below. It's one of those things that upon seeing people ask: "why nobody invented this before?".
The idea is to draw a number from 1 to 1980. Each number lies within a range that is either winning or losing, eventually pushing. All Craps bets have the 1980 cycle or a smaller one that can be extended to 1980. That was a trivial part. I had to be inventive what to do with Odds, but it's also simple when you know it. A knee-bending beauty of Craps lies in a fact that both Pass Line and Don't Pass Line have 2/3 chance to allow Odds. All you need is an optional draw to test your luck to enable them. Once the Odds are enabled a player is no longer confined to one bet dictated by the dice, but can choose any payout as in a modern Dice game. After placing the Odds bet (with the desired payout) player plays the Pass Line / Don't Pass Line bet and only then the Odds bet.
Below are the (usual) bets and (some) payouts. The payouts can be standard or enhanced. It's secondary to the idea through 2.78% house edge is high enough IMHO.

Number Craps aka 1980 Craps




Bet Win Loss Tie
Pass Line 1-976 (976) 977-1980 (1004) 0
Don't Pass Line 1-949 (949) 1005-1980 (976) 950-1004 (55)
Unlocking Odds (optional draw) 1-1320 (1320) 1321-1980 (660) 0
3x Odds, any range from 10 to 1900 numbers example1: under 991 wins 1:1
example2: under 901 wins 6:5
example3: under 793 wins 3:2
example4: under 661 wins 2:1
example1: over 990
example2: over 900
example3: over 792
example4: over 660
0
Place 6 and 8 under 901 over 900 0
Place 5 and 9 under 793 over 792 0
Place 4 or 10 under 661 over 660 0
Don't Place 6 and 8 under 1081 over 1080 0
Don't Place 5 and 9 under 1189 over 1188 0
Don't Place 4 and 10 under 1321 over 1320 0
Any 7 under 331 over 330 0
Field 12 pays Triple 1-55 wins 3:1
56-110 wins 2:1
111-880 wins 1:1
over 880 0
Any craps under 221 over 220 0
Horn as good as Field 1-110 wins 30
111-330 wins 14
over 330 0
Craps 12 under 56 wins 34 over 55 0
High / Low under 981 wins 1:1
over 1000 wins 1:1
over 980
under 1001
0
Prime any prime wins 5.5:1 non prime 0


For example, I bet 10 on Don't Pass Line. I make the effort to unlock Odds, by clicking on the relevant place on the table (presumably with some, nomen omen, odd name like "Odds validator"). I draw 1234, enabling Odds. I bet 30 on Odds number being over 990 (Double Up). I draw my Don't Pass Line number. I've got 1500, losing my 10 coins bet. I finally move to draw Odds number. I draw 888, winning 60. Altogether if always going for Odds it takes 2 draws 1/3 of the time and 3 draws 2/3 of the time to complete round. The expected number of rolls in Craps varies from 3.27 to 4.00 and can take more than a dozen.

As to the question of maximum Odds I go with 3, emulating Playtech. The whole game is already much simpler than Craps, which may result in higher actual RTP.
Note that High / Low bet, which can also be called "49:50 Double Up", is better than Pass Line / Don't Pass Line alone, equaling with the Banker bet in Single Deck Baccarat, without the commission of course. 5Dimes Bonus Casino proposes Pass Line and Don't Pass Line with 1.01 payout, but it's almost ugly. Who cares about dimes hanging on the end of the balance? Here the boost is in the form of more equal bet (from 976:1004 to 980:1000 or 49:50). The effect is almost identical but far more elegant.
Finally, the game can be played live either with one giant lotto machine with 1980 numbered balls or a mine of 36 more standard lotto machines, in 6x6 layout, with 55 balls. However, the latter begs for a question how to select the lotto machine that will be used to select one of 55 balls. If pressed hard, the operator could use 2 coloured dice and mapped the result to a particular machine, but this doesn't sound like fun anymore. 1980 table tennis balls, 40mm in diameter, would fill 102 litres if thrown randomly into a tube or a sphere. It would take quite a large cement mixer to let them really mix, but this could become the best part of the game.
If you have friends in the gaming business feel free to tell them. I can't wait to become rich.

Benefits over Craps:
- simple as roulette
- Odd underlined as an additional fair bet
- all bets can be trivially easily compared
- player defines Odds payout
- Don't Pass Line is no longer confusing or passee
- almost unlimited opportunities to create new bets
- no pushes - maximum of 3 draws per round
Last edited by: MattUK on Aug 2, 2020
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 178
  • Posts: 10254
Thanks for this post from:
TinManCalder
August 2nd, 2020 at 6:53:09 AM permalink
As much as you think this makes craps simpler, it doesn't. If you can't explain the game in under 30 seconds, it's too complex.

I read your post - three times - and I still don't get it. For one thing, I can't wrap my head around what you're trying to do with "unlocking odds".

It seems to me ("unlocking odds" aside) that you're trying to resolve every bet in one draw.

This isn't a new and improved craps. It's just a new, weird game, that happens to have a lot of bets that have the same payouts (and house edge) as craps.

And, unless I missed it, you're removing one of the key features of craps: That a player is directly involved in determining the outcome.


Quote: MattUK

.... I can't wait to become rich.

You're gonna have a long wait.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 131
August 2nd, 2020 at 7:06:29 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I can't wrap my head around what you're trying to do with "unlocking odds".


To simulate Craps but simpler. :)

Quote: DJTeddyBear

And, unless I missed it, you're removing one of the key features of craps: That a player is directly involved in determining the outcome.


Oh, yes. Especially in online casino. :)
Last edited by: MattUK on Aug 2, 2020
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 108
  • Posts: 6944
August 2nd, 2020 at 7:59:43 AM permalink
What DJ said... also.... it doesn't appear as much fun to me as being at a table with some guy or me rolling the dice. Since craps is by definition a losing game for the player, unless you add 'fun' to it, it won't succeed.

But.... if you ever do have a game that really has a chance at commercial success, there are things you need to do protect your intellectual property. There are a bunch of threads on attorneys, patents, math analysis, etc....
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 131
August 2nd, 2020 at 11:48:38 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

What DJ said... also.... it doesn't appear as much fun to me as being at a table with some guy or me rolling the dice. Since craps is by definition a losing game for the player, unless you add 'fun' to it, it won't succeed.


DJ said he doesn't understand the game so you're in a good company. This is NOT a game for a land casino because it includes modern (bitcoin) Dice game with no commission. I concluded that if one fair bet may be offered (one of six, to be exact) it doesn't really matter what the payout is and so the player may as well define it himself. This combination of dice game (usually with 1% commission) and fair odds (no commission) alone beats online Craps. It's when, not if, this innovation will enter the market.
JakeAustin112
JakeAustin112
Joined: Oct 19, 2020
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 4
October 20th, 2020 at 12:14:04 AM permalink
Quote: MattUK

Building on my previous work, I have invented a new Craps variant that removes all the intimidation from this great game by vastly simplifying the rules. Yet the mathematics remain intact. It's the same game, but simpler, faster as it eliminates pushes, giving players complete control over the Odds bet and with a host of entirely new bets that can be added. All Craps bets can be "converted" into Number Craps equivalents and this result in phenomenal ease in comparing them. It can be played as a live casino show, more on this below. It's one of those things that upon seeing people ask: "why nobody invented this before?".
The idea is to draw a number from 1 to 1980. Each number lies within a range that is either winning or losing, eventually pushing. All Craps bets have the 1980 cycle or a smaller one that can be extended to 1980. That was a trivial part. I had to be inventive what to do with Odds, but it's also simple when you know it. A knee-bending beauty of Craps lies in a fact that both Pass Line and Don't Pass Line have 2/3 chance to allow Odds. All you need is an optional draw to test your luck to enable them. Once the Odds are enabled a player is no longer confined to one bet dictated by the dice, but can choose any payout as in a modern Dice game. After placing the Odds bet (with the desired payout) player plays the Pass Line / Don't Pass Line bet and only then the Odds bet.
Below are the (usual) bets and (some) payouts. The payouts can be standard or enhanced. It's secondary to the idea through 2.78% house edge is high enough IMHO.

Number Craps aka 1980 Craps




Bet Win Loss Tie
Pass Line 1-976 (976) 977-1980 (1004) 0
Don't Pass Line 1-949 (949) 1005-1980 (976) 950-1004 (55)
Unlocking Odds (optional draw) 1-1320 (1320) 1321-1980 (660) 0
3x Odds, any range from 10 to 1900 numbers example1: under 991 wins 1:1
example2: under 901 wins 6:5
example3: under 793 wins 3:2
example4: under 661 wins 2:1
example1: over 990
example2: over 900
example3: over 792
example4: over 660
0
Place 6 and 8 under 901 over 900 0
Place 5 and 9 under 793 over 792 0
Place 4 or 10 under 661 over 660 0
Don't Place 6 and 8 under 1081 over 1080 0
Don't Place 5 and 9 under 1189 over 1188 0
Don't Place 4 and 10 under 1321 over 1320 0
Any 7 under 331 over 330 0
Field 12 pays Triple 1-55 wins 3:1
56-110 wins 2:1
111-880 wins 1:1
over 880 0
Any craps under 221 over 220 0
Horn as good as Field 1-110 wins 30
111-330 wins 14
over 330 0
Craps 12 under 56 wins 34 over 55 0
High / Low under 981 wins 1:1
over 1000 wins 1:1
over 980
under 1001
0
Prime any prime wins 5.5:1 non prime 0


For example, I bet 10 on Don't Pass Line. I make the effort to unlock Odds, by clicking on the relevant place on the table (presumably with some, nomen omen, odd name like "Odds validator"). I draw 1234, enabling Odds. I bet 30 on Odds number being over 990 (Double Up). I draw my Don't Pass Line number. I've got 1500, losing my 10 coins bet. I finally move to draw Odds number. I draw 888, winning 60. Altogether if always going for Odds it takes 2 draws 1/3 of the time and 3 draws 2/3 of the time to complete round. The expected number of rolls in Craps varies from 3.27 to 4.00 and can take more than a dozen.

As to the question of maximum Odds I go with 3, emulating Playtech. The whole game is already much simpler than Craps, which may result in higher actual RTP.
Note that High / Low bet, which can also be called "49:50 Double Up", is better than Pass Line / Don't Pass Line alone, equaling with the Banker bet in Single Deck Baccarat, without the commission of course. 5Dimes Bonus Casino proposes Pass Line and Don't Pass Line with 1.01 payout, but it's almost ugly. Who cares about dimes hanging on the end of the balance? Here the boost is in the form of more equal bet (from 976:1004 to 980:1000 or 49:50). The effect is almost identical but far more elegant.
Finally, the game can be played live either with one giant lotto machine with 1980 numbered balls or a mine of 36 more standard lotto machines, in 6x6 layout, with 55 balls. However, the latter begs for a question how to select the lotto machine that will be used to select one of 55 balls. If pressed hard, the operator could use 2 coloured dice and mapped the result to a particular machine, but this doesn't sound like fun anymore. 1980 table tennis balls, 40mm in diameter, would fill 102 litres if thrown randomly into a tube or a sphere. It would take quite a large cement mixer to let them really mix, but this could become the best part of the game.
If you have friends in the gaming business feel free to tell them. I can't wait to become rich.

Benefits over Craps:
- simple as roulette
- Odd underlined as an additional fair bet
- all bets can be trivially easily compared
- player defines Odds payout
- Don't Pass Line is no longer confusing or passee
- almost unlimited opportunities to create new bets
- no pushes - maximum of 3 draws per round



Great info.

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