MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 114
Thanks for this post from:
ksdjdj
July 18th, 2020 at 7:46:32 PM permalink
Roxor Gaming has released a Nice Dice game. it's played with 5 dice and three rolls to get the best possible hand. The RTP is 99.54%, so I strongly believe they tried to make an alternative to Craps. The game is available in online casinos owned by Gamesys Group. Below is a link to demo version on VirginGames.
https://www.virgingames.com/?game-info=play-nice-dice
https://www.virgingames.com/game/play-nice-dice/demo
There was already an attempt to find the best strategy, by a Japanese guy here.
https://www.a-taichi.com/tablegame/nicedice.html
I was wondering if the community is up for the challenge.

GAME INFORMATION

The main aim of this game is to roll a scoring hand after three rolls of five dice.
You will have three rolls, with two rounds of holding your dice in-between.
You can choose to hold or not hold as many or as few of the five dice as you wish between rolls.
After the third roll, the game automatically resolves the final configuration of the five dice.

RESULT DESCRIPTION PAYS
Full House *** Three dice of the same value with two other dice of the same value *** Push
Straight *** Five consecutive valued dice *** 1:1
Four of a Kind *** Four dice of the same value and one other non-matching dice *** 3:2
Five of a Kind *** Five dice of the same value *** 3:1
Nice Dice *** Five of a kind on the first roll *** 9:1
Last edited by: MattUK on Jul 19, 2020
ksdjdj
ksdjdj
Joined: Oct 20, 2013
  • Threads: 78
  • Posts: 881
Thanks for this post from:
MattUK
July 19th, 2020 at 3:33:14 AM permalink
Quote: MattUK

(snip)The RTP is 99.54%, so I strongly believe they tried to make an alternative to Craps. (snip)


Maybe, but it seems closer to a "Yahtzee-like" game to me.

Also, in your post there is a description/copy paste error where it says, "Straight *** Three dice of the same value with two other dice of the same value *** 1:1" as it should be describing a "straight" (e.g. 1-2-3-4-5) but it is just repeating the definition of a "full house"

Here are some links that may be helpful/interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahtzee

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/320889/yahtzee-large-straight-strategy

http://datagenetics.com/blog/january42012/index.html#:~:text=Finally%2C%20there%20is%20a%2010,or%20the%20second%20one%20does).

---
Spelling not checked thoroughly
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 114
Thanks for this post from:
ksdjdj
July 19th, 2020 at 3:50:18 AM permalink
You're right on both. Nice Dice can be described as simplified Yahtzee and Straight is 1 to 5 or 2 to 6.
Playing it for a while on demo helps to feel the best choices intuitively so I would recommend it. The link is in the first post.
Last edited by: MattUK on Jul 19, 2020
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 94
  • Posts: 4188
July 19th, 2020 at 7:33:07 AM permalink
Quote: MattUK

There was already an attempt to find the best strategy, by a Japanese guy here.
https://www.a-taichi.com/tablegame/nicedice.html
I was wondering if the community is up for the challenge.


Sounds easy enough, but I can't find the demo, so I have one question: if I hold (i.e. not reroll) a die for the second roll, can I then choose to reroll it in the third roll?
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 114
July 19th, 2020 at 7:48:51 AM permalink
You can choose to stand and the result will be binding. It's a wasted opportunity as long as the hand can be improved.
There is now a link to the demo version in the first post.

I suspect that - much like always going to war with ties in War - player should always try to create Five of a kind. The optimal strategy table may look like this, but this is probably an oversimplification.


Initial roll First decision Second decision
any instant winning hand except Four of a kind stand ---
Four of a kind roll not matching die roll not matching die or stand if matched
1-3-4-5-6 or 1-2-3-4-6 Roll 1 or 6 Roll 1 or 6 if not matched, otherwise stand
2-3-4-5 and one dublet Roll doubled die Roll doubled die if still not Straight, otherwise stand
Three of a kind Roll not matching 2 dice Roll not matching 2 or 1 dice, stand with Five of a kind
One pair Roll not matching 3 dice Roll not matching 3, 2 or 1 dice, stand with Five of a kind
Last edited by: MattUK on Jul 19, 2020
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 2047
July 19th, 2020 at 8:15:07 AM permalink
I'm assuming (using poker dice as it's easier to think it through) if you say held KK and drew QJT then I think you would now go for the outside straight holding KQJT.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 94
  • Posts: 4188
July 19th, 2020 at 9:24:48 AM permalink
The strategy after the second roll is:
Don't break up a full house, three of a kind, or two pair
Keep four to a straight even if it means breaking up a pair; otherwise, hold onto the pair
(i.e. hold onto a pair if the roll includes a 1 and a 6)

As ax example, suppose that, after your second roll, you have 1 1 2 2 6
If you hold the two pair, you have 1/3 chance of a full house (EV 0) and 2/3 of a loss (EV -1), for a total EV of -2/3
If you hold, say, the 1s, then, of the 216 rolls:
1 is 1,1,1 (EV +3)
15 are 1,1,x (EV +1.5)
15 are 1,x,x (EV 0)
5 are a different three of a kind (EV 0)
The other 190 are losing rolls (EV -1)
The total EV is (3 + 22.5 - 190) / 216 = about -0.7616
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 31
  • Posts: 2047
July 19th, 2020 at 9:35:18 AM permalink
Not sure if I've got it totally correct as I get 99.73% (and you can throw away something you held, otherwise it's about 98.9%).

Play as seems obvious except
1st Round
- Full House, only keep Trips.
- Two pairs, keep one pair (K Q J or T if possible) - If you only keep the highest pair it's 99.68%.
- Pair, play the pair unless there's an easy straight draw (e.g. KKQJT).
- Nothing, go for the straight.

2nd Round
- Stand on Full House (it's a shame they've not quite made this an optional play where the EV is the same whether you stand or draw)
- Go for any straight draw (i.e. discard from the pair)
- Draw one card to Two Pairs.

Note: Sorry I didn't make it clear that I was using Poker Dice (easier to think), so for K Q J T read 5 4 3 2 and KKQJT read 55432. With Two Pairs on the 1st round, if you have a choice throw away the 11 or 66.
Last edited by: charliepatrick on Jul 19, 2020
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 114
July 19th, 2020 at 9:44:57 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

The strategy after the second roll is:



You can't talk about the second decision without resolving the first one (what to do in all cases). Probably that's why you have that funny 23.84% RTP. It's like American Roulette with 29 zeros. Please consider looking on that Japanese website and translate using Google.
https://www.a-taichi.com/tablegame/nicedice.html
It's not easy to go through his tables, but he did it Wizard-style. Ideally, we should also have EV for any case to be able to compare them and see the increase (unless it was a risk worth taking, but the roll decreases the EV, which in principle may happen).
Here is his summary. I am trying to figure out what the oriental names describe.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lk10B2ZT5NfidfwgKf-ZDxDXPlTEGZdS/view?usp=sharing
Last edited by: MattUK on Jul 19, 2020
MattUK
MattUK
Joined: Jul 25, 2017
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 114
July 19th, 2020 at 9:50:11 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick


- Two pairs, keep one pair (K Q J or T if possible) - If you only keep the highest pair it's 99.68%.
- Pair, play the pair unless there's an easy straight draw (e.g. KKQJT).
- Draw one card to Two Pairs.



Ehm... Charlie... it's a wrong thread. This one is about a dice game. :-)

  • Jump to: