misterbee
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
• Posts: 10
September 9th, 2019 at 6:58:49 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

I wait to make the place bet because coming out, the seven, the most common single roll, is a winner for you. Why place another bet that will lose when it comes? There's plenty of time to make the place bet after a point is established.

We don't know what the roll is going to be. The probability of a certain number is exactly the same regardless of where it falls in a craps roll, whether it's on the come-out or after a point has been established. I started the thread because I almost never see anyone ask for their place bets to work all the time and wondered if there was a reason that I was missing.
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
• Posts: 1402
September 9th, 2019 at 7:39:58 PM permalink
Quote: misterbee

We don't know what the roll is going to be. The probability of a certain number is exactly the same regardless of where it falls in a craps roll, whether it's on the come-out or after a point has been established. I started the thread because I almost never see anyone ask for their place bets to work all the time and wondered if there was a reason that I was missing.

Because people like to root for the shooter and seven is a winner on the comeout for the shooter.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
• Posts: 6763
September 10th, 2019 at 1:03:42 AM permalink
Quote: misterbee

We don't know what the roll is going to be. The probability of a certain number is exactly the same regardless of where it falls in a craps roll, whether it's on the come-out or after a point has been established. I started the thread because I almost never see anyone ask for their place bets to work all the time and wondered if there was a reason that I was missing.

True, but why choose to have bets that lose when others win, when the most common single number is thrown? I don't think you see it as a hedge. Embrace the seven winner...
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
• Posts: 626
September 10th, 2019 at 3:55:11 AM permalink
I'd probably lay the 8 for \$25 if the shooter is betting the Don't Pass.
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 10088
September 10th, 2019 at 6:23:30 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Because people like to root for the shooter and seven is a winner on the comeout for the shooter.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

Since most people are rooting for a 7, it became routine to turn off those place bets and odds on a come out roll.

Of course, why hard ways remain on, and only in Vegas, is still a mystery.

Also, dice setters tend to set them differently on come outs vs mid roll. I’m not saying that it works at all, but why fight karma?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
• Posts: 8167
September 10th, 2019 at 6:55:09 AM permalink
I wouldn't have place bets working any more often than is customary, for a reason I haven't seen here yet: the variance is very low. Of course that is an argument against making them at all.

The Place 6,8 has a standard deviation of 1.08. If you want to get a handle on how boringly that takes your money, bet them for a good while, with no other bets on the table, especially just one or the other, not both.

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
• Posts: 1402
September 10th, 2019 at 7:19:06 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I wouldn't have place bets working any more often than is customary, for a reason I haven't seen here yet: the variance is very low. Of course that is an argument against making them at all.

The Place 6,8 has a standard deviation of 1.08. If you want to get a handle on how boringly that takes your money, bet them for a good while, with no other bets on the table, especially just one or the other, not both.

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/

Not that my system is any better than another, but if I place the 6/8 I will do it once to pay the odds on my come if it hits. For example, at a 3/4/5 table you can place a \$60 8 and have a \$25 come bet. If an 8 is rolled you win \$70 and the dealer takes \$125 for odds on the 8 and tosses you a red chip back.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
cowboy
Joined: Apr 22, 2013
• Posts: 162
September 10th, 2019 at 10:04:47 AM permalink
But there is no Come bet on a Come-out roll and using the place to pay the odds does not work unless that number rolls after a point is established.

The two answers here that make the most sense are why have it working when a 7 wins? And right (light?) side bettors (who will make place rather than lay bets) are rooting for the shooter.

Also would anyone turn off a lay bet on a come out? Similar principle applies, except then everyone can be happy.
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
• Posts: 1402
September 10th, 2019 at 10:05:52 AM permalink
Quote: cowboy

But there is no Come bet on a Come-out roll and using the place to pay the odds does not work unless that number rolls after a point is established.

The two answers here that make the most sense are why have it working when a 7 wins? And right (light?) side bettors (who will make place rather than lay bets) are rooting for the shooter.

My last post was confusing. I was no longer responding to what to do on the come out roll. I was responding to odious’s post about the standard deviation of place bets and what happens when left out for a long time.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
cowboy
Joined: Apr 22, 2013