Buying the 5 and 9

Hi, brand new member. I have been reading this forum and learning a lot since getting back from Vegas two weeks ago. I had a really great craps roll (I am a total random thrower) that lasted 45 min and won me and my the whole table a bunch of money. Since getting back, I’ve been thinking more systematically about the game.

My main question is whether Vegas casinos will let you buy the 5 and 9 (and pay vig on win only) like they do the 4/10 or if they only let you place the 5/9 like the 6/8.

From my recent trip to Vegas, if you just give the dealer money to go “across” the numbers, you get a buy on the 4/10 and a place on the 5/6/8/9. While that is the “better” choice for 4/6/8/10 I think it is the worse choice for the 5/9.

For example, if you place the 5 for $100, a win pays $140. But I’d you bought the 5 for $100 (with vig on win) then a win would pay $145.

Happy to hear that my analysis is wrong (I’m pretty new to it). Otherwise love to hear whether anyone knows whether Vegas would let you buy the 5/9 (vig on win) if you specifically ask.

that is a case by case answer. My local in PA does allow buy on 5/9 but there are not many places that do. I personally don't know any in vegas that. There may be some but I don't know any.

Quote: unJon

Otherwise love to hear whether anyone knows whether Vegas would let you buy the 5/9 (vig on win) if you specifically ask.

I too have never seen this is Las Vegas Nevada. Not that it could exist.
I mostly make Lay bets and the vig has always been asked for at the time the bet is made on the 5 or 9.

I have NOT played craps at all casinos in Las Vegas.

For you, you should figure on always placing but always ask
(unless you are really shy and hate rejection in front of others)

maybe, just maybe, one with 'ears and power' might change things just for you (I doubt that)

thank you for sharing!
Sally

Gambling writers talk about buying the 5 and 9, so yeah, it is possible albeit rare to see: you've got to check with the crew to see their position.

Another bet that I've never seen but which exists, at least in theory, is the "place to lose" bet, a place bet on a number that only pays if a seven shows before the number hits.

Quote: MrV

Another bet that I've never seen but which exists, at least in theory, is the "place to lose" bet, a place bet on a number that only pays if a seven shows before the number hits.

I have only seen those bets on the 'bubble craps' machines
I made lots of them on 'shoot to win' when they 1st came out
and even used (very successfully I may add) progressions on them too (both positive and negative types)

wish they had a 'bubble craps' in the small town I now live in
just for fun of course
Sally

Mississippi. 5 & 9 no problem. Only a question of if they pay with half dollars on a $10 bet. The only question left is if you can buy the 2, 3, 11, and 12 with vig on win. Possibly in Tunica. Best Buy bets ever.

Thank you for the responses. I’m not sure how to quote multiple people’s posts.

@mustangsally, I will definitely ask and see what happens next time I’m in Vegas.

@everyone else, thanks for experience at other places. I probably won’t be in those locations (usually AC and Veggas only but occasionally Park City).

I’m surprised that casinos don’t offer the buy or have it as a competition. As someone that plays “across” for decent money I would definitely choose a casino based on the less than 2% edge buying 5/9 (pay on win) vs the 4% on placing the 5/9. And buying edge would put that number in line with the edge for placing 6/8 and buying 4/10 (pay vig on win). The 5/9 stands out as almost a sucker bet in comparison. Maybe I won’t play it next time if I can’t buy it and see if the pit boss cares (he probably won’t).

Quote: unJon

Hi, brand new member.

Welcome.

Quote: unJon

I am a total random thrower

We all are.

Quote: unJon

My main question is whether Vegas casinos will let you buy the 5 and 9 (and pay vig on win only) like they do the 4/10 or if they only let you place the 5/9 like the 6/8.

Your monster roll was not in Vegas. It was in a particular casino somewhere in Vegas. You can always ask. If the entire crew and all the players laugh uproariously at you, don't worry: the dice won't hear either your question or the response to it. Its YOUR money and you might as well risk your money with wisdom as with ignorance.

If you are in a "break in joint", a place for newly minted dealers to learn their trade, they may not know what you are talking about. If you are in a Top Tier casino, they will know and if its a top tier casino they will have learned to be polite at all times in all circumstances.

Certain bets such as "Put bets" and you might as well be in Athens because its all Greek to the crew. Other bets such as Place to Lose are pretty much in the same category unless you are in an internet casino where the electronics allows such bets. Yet, as ever, there is no penalty for asking. Particularly if its a slow time of the day. On a Friday or Saturday night, the dealers will TRY to accommodate questions though it may be difficult.

If the dealer books the bet the house has to pay it and any reprimand from the Box or the Floor Man will be to the dealer, not to you.

So my advice is go for it. Sure its nice to come here afterwards and ask about our collective knowledge but the main thing to remember is that when it is your money at risk, you are the one who should not hesitate to ask.

This is one reason I always like the Venetian and those casinos of its caliber The dealers know their trade or they would not be working there. Now if you go to the "Hell Cortez" your dealer might be having his first shift ever. You never know.

Thanks. I was at Bellagio. Would go somewhere else next time if I could buy 5/9.

Quote: unJon

Thanks. I was at Bellagio. Would go somewhere else next time if I could buy 5/9.

Well, I mentioned The Venetian and would expect them to allow it but all I can say with any personal knowledge is that way back in ancient history when I was last able to afford their room rates, they allowed it.

Frankly, I expect the Bellagio will indeed accommodate you but resolving any doubts in advance is always best.

Quote: unJon

My main question is whether Vegas casinos will let you buy the 5 and 9 (and pay vig on win only) like they do the 4/10 or if they only let you place the 5/9 like the 6/8.

I asked this very question a while back at Paris Las Vegas, since I too wanted to cut the place bet vig in half from 4% to 2%, but they did not allow it. The deal to pay commission only on a win, is only available on the 4 & 10. I assume it's the same in other casinos on the strip, since they all, AFAIK, have the same rules except for the 2x vs 3x variation on the field bet, and 100x odds at the Cromwell.

Quote: Don911

I asked this very question a while back at Paris Las Vegas, since I too wanted to cut the place bet vig in half from 4% to 2%, but they did not allow it. The deal to pay commission only on a win, is only available on the 4 & 10. I assume it's the same in other casinos on the strip, since they all, AFAIK, have the same rules except for the 2x vs 3x variation on the field bet, and 100x odds at the Cromwell.

Thank you. I would have thought that since some casinos seem to do it at least outside of Vegas (Pittsburgh, Biloxi, etc) and since so many craps players are focused on HE, that the ability to buy 5/9 would spread.

Most places, even the ones that charge juice after the hit on 4-10, will charge you up front on the 5-6-8-9.

It makes the bet not worth it.

Let’s hear it for the dumbest casino in Mississippi, Island View, in Gulfport. You can buy the 5/9, but at $50 minimum! Can’t fix stupid.

Quote: DeMango

Let’s hear it for the dumbest casino in Mississippi, Island View, in Gulfport. You can buy the 5/9, but at $50 minimum! Can’t fix stupid.

Seems like a chip race on the red. Bet $50, win $75 (minus the $1-$2 vig) instead of winning $70 on the PB.

Just came from Oceans Resort in AC. Not allowed to buy the 5 or 9. Could buy 4/10 but vig paid up front. On the bright side it was an up to 10x odds table. Put bets not allowed. No features bet.

Quote: unJon

Just came from Oceans Resort in AC. Not allowed to buy the 5 or 9. Could buy 4/10 but vig paid up front. On the bright side it was an up to 10x odds table. Put bets not allowed. No features bet.

Thank you for the information. It sounds as if the casino, at least as far as that table is concerned, is going for SPEED of play and not requiring the crew to be bothered with 'buy' lammers on the 5 or 9. Nothing particularly wrong with that. Glad to hear the table was "up to 10x" rather than that 'mandatory 10x or 0x' odds bet stuff that was reported during their two day soft opening semi-confusion.

Yes, definitely “up to” 10x. It was a $10 min $1,000 max table on a Wednesday afternoon. There was one other table open that was an up to 5x table. Table crew was efficient and pleasant. Good chatter but not annoyingly so.

Adding to this thread:

1) Rivers casino in Pittsburgh automatically converts any place bet in the 5/9 to a buy at $25 or higher. This is how all craps tables should do it, IMO. Dealers get it and it doesn’t slow the game down at all.

2) Aria let me buy the 5/9 so long as bet was $50 or more. The crew had to call the pit boss over to ok it, and the crew was very confused by it. It ended up slowing the game down some. I don’t know if this is their proxy or if they just made an exception for me because I asked.

In my experience, buying the outside numbers makes sense when those bets are above a minimum level. One does not want to slow the game unnecessarily just to save a few theoretical cents per bet. Try to avoid having multi-color bets on the outside numbers, again for the sake of maintaining game speed. Of course, seek those houses which require commission only following a win.

When the 4 and 10 are are at $25 then Buy them. When the 5 and 9 are at $50 or $100 then buy them. Keep them Green or Black. If the dealers are confused then your bets offer an opportunity to expand their horizons. Do not back down. For many years several East Coast offshore casinos offered only Buy bets on all the box numbers, including the 6 and 8. The rules are not complex.

Responding also to an unrelated earlier posting in this string, Australian houses often offer Place Bets to Lose. Fun to know these bets, but unhelpful to play them.