MidwestAP
MidwestAP
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
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November 18th, 2016 at 8:16:44 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

It is because the shooter is shooting FOR or AGAINST the point number that is established, and this game rule is enforced in play, just like requiring a main blackjack bet in order to play the side bet.

It doesn't have to make sense to the player. It doesn't even have to make sense to the casino dealers. It's like the requirement that ten men must form a minyan for the temple to have a praying congregation, as nine won't do. God said so, and here the casino says so, and there you go. Also similar to when a priest says "it's one of the mysteries of the church....make Nine First Fridays so that you can go to heaven...." You can ask, "But WHY, oh why..."



You're right, I can ask 'why'. In an empty table, there is no one FOR or AGAINST a point number, so I ask why is there a need to force a line bet? Why would the casino be against letting someone make throws on one roll resolved bets until a pass/don't pass shooter wishes to play? The casino would be playing at a big advantage without disrupting the game whatsoever. Your response of 'that's them there rules' doesn't address why the rules are there. Imagine the potential profit and advantage the casino would have on someone shooting and only betting field, hop, and horn bets.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 18th, 2016 at 8:35:30 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

You're right, I can ask 'why'. In an empty table, there is no one FOR or AGAINST a point number, so I ask why is there a need to force a line bet?


If you are shooting the dice, then it is not an empty table, and where you are shooting for or against the point. You have to make a bet that makes a choice on this in order to proceed. The shooter is not allowed to straddle the fence on this.

Quote: MidWestAP

Why would the casino be against letting someone make throws on one roll resolved bets until a pass/don't pass shooter wishes to play? The casino would be playing at a big advantage without disrupting the game whatsoever. Your response of 'that's them there rules' doesn't address why the rules are there. Imagine the potential profit and advantage the casino would have on someone shooting and only betting field, hop, and horn bets.



My (or the casino's) response might not adequately address the "Why" of this to your satisfaction, but it is expected and enforced that the shooter must pick a side in relation to the upcoming line result, in order to throw: Pass Line or Don't, Trump versus Hillary, Good versus Evil, heads or tails, what have you. You cannot say "I choose not to choose," as it would violate the Covenants of the Crap Table. Just pick one "Do or Don't" side and put a minimum bet on the line, and add yer field bet. This should not put you into an existential quandary.....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
FatGeezus
FatGeezus
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
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November 18th, 2016 at 9:15:27 AM permalink
I have thrown the dice without a line bet!

I was at the table with just one other player. The shooter established a point. I made 3 Don't Come bets.

The shooter made the point. He then made another Pass line bet and threw a #2. He made another Pass line bet and threw another #2. He then then decided to leave. That just left me with 3 Don't Come bets on the table.

The dealer asked if I wanted to shoot and when I said NO, he started to return my 3 Don't Come bets. I told him to leave my bets there. I would wait there until another shooter came to the table.

A few players approached the table but when they saw the DC bets on the table they left. After waiting a few more minutes, they finally gave me the dice to shoot without any line bet. The reason that they finally gave in and gave me the dice was because they wanted to close the table. This happened a long time ago. I think I made one of the DC points and then sevened out. They immediately closed the table.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 18th, 2016 at 9:38:04 AM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

I have thrown the dice without a line bet!



This may happen: break-in dealers, break-in floormen, etc. (Is the player shooting for or against the point?? - Don't know and don't care....looks okay to me...I think....oops.)

When we were on the game (at Fiesta), we even wouldn't send the dice out if there were no line bet: "Sir, pick a side, Do or Don't...." If someone picked up their line bet, dice would stay in the center and they'd get a reminder/warning.


We've seen all sorts of stuff at the casino.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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November 18th, 2016 at 9:41:36 AM permalink
Quote: HorseJeff


My question: Why? ... There must be some logic behind this that I'm missing.



An Internet search on "History of Craps" returned this:

The game of craps was invented by Sir William of Tyre in 1125 AD during the Crusades. Sir William and his troops came upon a castle which was named “Asart” or “Hazarth”, and the dice game was a pastime for them while laying siege to the castle.

I think the reason for the Pass/DP requirement is that when craps (Hazarth) was first played, the Pass bet was the only wager. Period. I don't thing the Crusaders had things like Field and Hop bets, don'cher know?
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 18th, 2016 at 9:53:45 AM permalink
This was a totally different game, Hazard.

Modern craps was defined/codified by John H. Winn around 1910 (source: John Scarne).
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
smoothgrh
smoothgrh 
Joined: Oct 26, 2011
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November 18th, 2016 at 10:04:13 AM permalink
I made a field bet without a pass line bet. I was alone on a slow night at the big casino in Sparks. The lone craps table was empty and seemingly had been for quite some time. I, maybe 22-23 years old at the time, sauntered up with about $55 in chips and plopped them onto the Field. The dealers turned to the pit boss and asked "can he do that?" The pit boss looked up from his clipboard and said go ahead. I got the dice, rolled them with positive thoughts and anticipation of a quick win, then heard the call: seven. I've never done that again.
GWAE
GWAE
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Thanks for this post from:
Paigowdan
November 18th, 2016 at 10:56:51 AM permalink
just because people have done it doesn't mean it was right or going with the rules. I have done some pretty stupid and possibly illegal stuff before but just because I did it doesn't make it right.

I think the entire answer for the OP is, you have to make a bet because that is how the game was designed. Once the patent was created with the official rules then the casinos are forced to follow the rules or gaming can come down hard on them.

Sure the casino is better off allowing someone to make a 7% or whatever wager but rules are dem rules.


btw, ,what the hell is this thank you button that I am seeing.

eta: aww I cant thank myself
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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November 18th, 2016 at 11:09:15 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

You're right, I can ask 'why'. In an empty table, there is no one FOR or AGAINST a point number, so I ask why is there a need to force a line bet? Why would the casino be against letting someone make throws on one roll resolved bets until a pass/don't pass shooter wishes to play? The casino would be playing at a big advantage without disrupting the game whatsoever. Your response of 'that's them there rules' doesn't address why the rules are there. Imagine the potential profit and advantage the casino would have on someone shooting and only betting field, hop, and horn bets.

Following that line, the casino would have to allow solo bets on Big Red or Horn or World.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
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November 18th, 2016 at 11:54:49 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Following that line, the casino would have to allow solo bets on Big Red or Horn or World.



Sure, those as well.

Other than the rules, which I understand don't permit it, hypothetically, why would a casino not allow a person to shoot one roll bets as long as there aren't any pass/don't pass players at the table? The outcome of one roll bets is independent of the outcome of the pass/don't pass, therefore, I don't know why the rule exists when the only bettor(s) at the table are not making pass/don't pass wagers.

I do understand why the rule exists when there are pass/don't pass bettors as they don't appreciate dice switching hands in the middle of a roll, even though each roll is independent of the previous. On top of that, many enjoy the group camaraderie as they cheer for the same numbers. So, in these situations, I can understand why you need a pass/don't pass to roll, but when there isn't anyone wanting to bet pass/don't pass, I don't understand why the rule exists. Not that I would do it, I haven't bet those wagers in a long long time, but it shouldn't stop others under the described circumstances.

Excuse the bold type, wasn't meant for you, but for others.

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