Turn & burn Craps
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They took out all the good bets, removed the roller, made it all one roll bets, it looks terrible. Have you guys seen this?
Outcome determined by Random Number Generation and shown on a digital display.
The prop bet odds look slightly improved vs. traditional craps though.
Quote: Wonko33I can't see all the payouts on the picture , I would be curious to calculate house advantage.
Assuming 7 and Any Pair are 9-2 and Any Craps is 15-2, here's what I get for house advantages:
Field, 6, 8 - 1/36 (2.78%)
Hop, Turn, Any Craps - 1/18 (5.56%)
7, Any Pair - 1/12 (8.33%)
If I find the paper I did all my work on I'll put up all the numbers.
I was super sad with this new game.
If they had found a way to get around the use of dice for craps, they could have used their dice system to get regular craps into California. Maybe there is a law that I am missing right now, but for speculation, the casino is going belly up and is grasping at straws right now to stay afloat.
Quote: 10TickIf they had found a way to get around the use of dice for craps, they could have used their dice system to get regular craps into California. Maybe there is a law that I am missing right now, but for speculation, the casino is going belly up and is grasping at straws right now to stay afloat.
The only games allowed in California are card games and gaming machines - and the newer casinos, or ones that have had their compacts changed in the last five years or so (e.g. to increase the number of machines allowed), have two further rules; nothing that resembles roulette, and nothing that uses actual dice. An E-craps machine (where the dice aren't "real" - e.g. "pop-o-matic" Craps) has always been allowed.
I am a little surprised they can get away with a table game that doesn't use cards (or Pai Gow tiles), even if it uses an RNG for the dice (so maybe they can pretend it is a "gaming device" rather than a table game - but the term "gaming device" is defined in the Compact, and an RNG doesn't fit the description). The only games allowed are "gaming devices," "banking or percentage card games," the state lottery, and, assuming it jumps through the appropriate hoops, off-site horse racing.
Quote: ThatDonGuyThe only games allowed in California are card games and gaming machines - and the newer casinos, or ones that have had their compacts changed in the last five years or so (e.g. to increase the number of machines allowed), have two further rules; nothing that resembles roulette, and nothing that uses actual dice. An E-craps machine (where the dice aren't "real" - e.g. "pop-o-matic" Craps) has always been allowed.
I am a little surprised they can get away with a table game that doesn't use cards (or Pai Gow tiles), even if it uses an RNG for the dice (so maybe they can pretend it is a "gaming device" rather than a table game - but the term "gaming device" is defined in the Compact, and an RNG doesn't fit the description). The only games allowed are "gaming devices," "banking or percentage card games," the state lottery, and, assuming it jumps through the appropriate hoops, off-site horse racing.
I would love to sit in a room where the California gaming commission is debating the "logic" of not allowing dice and roulette, the level of stupidity must be staggering but oh so entertaining.
It's in the penal code, they have no choice. It would take an act of legislation to change it. The regulators have no power to write new laws, only pass regulations within existing ones.Quote: Wonko33I would love to sit in a room where the California gaming commission is debating the "logic" of not allowing dice and roulette, the level of stupidity must be staggering but oh so entertaining.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=330-337z
Quote: MathExtremistIt's in the penal code, they have no choice. It would take an act of legislation to change it. The regulators have no power to write new laws, only pass regulations within existing ones.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=330-337z
That section of the penal code also bans 21. Obviously, this law doesn't apply to tribal casinos.
However, you're right in that the gaming commission has no say in the matter; what can and can't be played is specified in the compact between the tribe and the state, and I am under the impression that the governor decides what goes into the compact. (Also, recent compacts have been subject to ratification by statewide vote.)
Quote: MathExtremistIt's in the penal code, they have no choice. It would take an act of legislation to change it. The regulators have no power to write new laws, only pass regulations within existing ones.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=330-337z
well then I accused the wrong people, I would still be interested in the arguments that made this get into the penal code. Is it because it is easier to see marked cards that funny dice or roulette tables? But who am I to talk about stupid laws, the ones where I live are even worse sometimes (Washington State)
I think that section of the penal code is very old, back to the days when you played poker in saloons but not dice or wheels. I get the sense that card games would have been entirely outlawed along with everything else if poker hadn't been such an important cultural item.Quote: Wonko33well then I accused the wrong people, I would still be interested in the arguments that made this get into the penal code. Is it because it is easier to see marked cards that funny dice or roulette tables? But who am I to talk about stupid laws, the ones where I live are even worse sometimes (Washington State)
As to Washington, I have a distributor's license there. They're trying but they're underfunded because the market is shrinking (# of commercial cardrooms is down by about 50% in the past decade). Also the folks running the WSGC didn't grow up with their parents running casinos the way the regulators in, say, NV or NJ did.
Quote: Wonko33I would love to sit in a room where the California gaming commission is debating the "logic" of not allowing dice and roulette, the level of stupidity must be staggering but oh so entertaining.
silly, the commissioners and legislators are politicians or appointed by politicians...doesn't that fact alone explain the level of stupidity?
tom "home runs are sometimes boring" p
Quote: Wonko33I would love to sit in a room where the California gaming commission is debating the "logic" of not allowing dice and roulette, the level of stupidity must be staggering but oh so entertaining.
My best guess is, it has something to do with something in the California Constitution, Article 4, Section 19(e):
"The Legislature has no power to authorize, and shall prohibit, casinos of the type currently operating in Nevada and New Jersey."
("Currently" refers to 1984, when California's voters first authorized a state lottery.)
Note that the tribal casinos couldn't open sports books even if they wanted to (and the state authorized it); that's a Federal ban.
Quote: ThatDonGuyMy best guess is, it has something to do with something in the California Constitution, Article 4, Section 19(e):
"The Legislature has no power to authorize, and shall prohibit, casinos of the type currently operating in Nevada and New Jersey."
("Currently" refers to 1984, when California's voters first authorized a state lottery.)
Note that the tribal casinos couldn't open sports books even if they wanted to (and the state authorized it); that's a Federal ban.
but you can do Draftkings and Fanduel (both still illegal in stupid WA state) because it is FANTASY football, I don't remember where but someone was suggesting FANTASY poker and FANTASY blackjack online-
Other games, like roulette or craps, are outlawed because they don't use cards and are house banked.
Quote: Wonko33Quote: ThatDonGuyMy best guess is, it has something to do with something in the California Constitution, Article 4, Section 19(e):
"The Legislature has no power to authorize, and shall prohibit, casinos of the type currently operating in Nevada and New Jersey."
("Currently" refers to 1984, when California's voters first authorized a state lottery.)
Note that the tribal casinos couldn't open sports books even if they wanted to (and the state authorized it); that's a Federal ban.
but you can do Draftkings and Fanduel (both still illegal in stupid WA state) because it is FANTASY football, I don't remember where but someone was suggesting FANTASY poker and FANTASY blackjack online-
There probably already is "fantasy poker," along of the lines of how well players do in the WSOP.
As for why fantasy sports aren't considered gambling; well, they are considered gambling, but since you're betting on individuals rather than teams, and you can includes players from different teams on your fantasy team, somebody is under the impression that it's far less likely that one or more players will be paid off to modify the result. Yes, most fantasy football leagues use a team's statistics for defense, and in fact, I wonder why the federal government doesn't consider that illegal.
Quote: ThatDonGuy
There probably already is "fantasy poker," along of the lines of how well players do in the WSOP.
As for why fantasy sports aren't considered gambling; well, they are considered gambling, but since you're betting on individuals rather than teams, and you can includes players from different teams on your fantasy team, somebody is under the impression that it's far less likely that one or more players will be paid off to modify the result. Yes, most fantasy football leagues use a team's statistics for defense, and in fact, I wonder why the federal government doesn't consider that illegal.[/q
Yes let's protect the integrity of a game but do nothing about millions spent influencing votes in the Capitol, people would probably freak out more if American Idol voting was rigged than to what goes on everyday with our politicians lol.So Wizard, still no basic strategy for strip poker huh?
I don't know about the other two, but Cache Creek has one of the older compacts where the bans on roulette and dice don't exist.Quote: gaminglawPlease understand the new compacts state the there in nothing to presume the right to offer the game KNOWN AS ROULETTE, even when played with cards. The dominant roulette card style table game in California is Mystery Card Roulette (MCR). It is not the game known as roulette dealt with cards. To be the game known as roulette, you would have to have a ball and wheel. MCR uses a patented shuffler that contains 38 custom cards. There is no ball and no wheel. The only tribal casinos that fall under this definition would be Barona, Pala and Cache Creek as they use a wheel, ball and cards.
Okay, I'll ask: exactly where in California's Constitution (as opposed to, say, the state Penal Code) do the words "roulette" or "dice" even exist? The closest thing I can find is the ban on Nevada/New Jersey-type casinos I mentioned earlier in this thread.Quote: gaminglawWhen the state restricted Roulette and Dice in their constitution, it was not the play of the game, it was the point generation device.
Excuse me? Even if it required a Constitutional amendment, that only needs a majority vote of the people - according to Article XVIII, Section 4 of the California State Constitution:Quote: gaminglawIn order for Roulette wheels and dice to become legal, there would need to be a constitutional amendment which requires a 2/3 vote by the people.
A proposed amendment or revision shall be submitted to the electors and if approved by a majority of votes thereon takes effect the day after the election unless the measure provides otherwise.
I'm familiar with the most recent one (remember, I live in California - either that, or the Franchise Tax Board owes me all of that money I have been paying it for the past 30-plus years - so I get to see any statewide initiative), where a tribe wanted to have gaming on an area that wasn't its own, but what was the other one?Quote: gaminglawThe tribes have tried twice and lost big time.
