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2farmboyz
2farmboyz
Joined: Jun 12, 2015
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June 12th, 2015 at 1:43:00 PM permalink
what is the house advantage if I bet the passline and also place a bet on 6 and 8 plus bet the field after every throw
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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June 12th, 2015 at 6:38:26 PM permalink
Quote: 2farmboyz

what is the house advantage if I bet the passline and also place a bet on 6 and 8 plus bet the field after every throw



Not specific enough, betting how much on each?
Vultures can't be choosers.
surrender88s
surrender88s
Joined: Jun 23, 2013
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June 12th, 2015 at 8:06:19 PM permalink
Roughly 4%, enough to not split hairs about it, it's a big house edge. Placing both the 6 and 8, plus field action puts you in a place to lose pretty quick. Consider playing pass, and adding come or don't come bets if you want more action.
"Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." -Warren Buffett on risk/return
Ahigh
Ahigh
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June 13th, 2015 at 12:48:38 AM permalink
http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/

Combined HE% per roll will be between 0.46% for no field, only six and eight place bets, and 2.78% if you bet only the field.

If you bet the same amount on each of the six, eight, and field, the edge per roll is easy to remember.

It's 1.23456789%

Who'd a thunk it?
Tanko
Tanko
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June 13th, 2015 at 3:50:08 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/1/

Combined HE% per roll will be between 0.46% for no field, only six and eight place bets...



I get (10/22x28)-(12/22X24)/24= 1.51% HE for the combined Place 6 and Place 8 and no Field.

How do you get .46%?
Ahigh
Ahigh
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June 13th, 2015 at 9:02:07 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

I get (10/22x28)-(12/22X24)/24= 1.51% HE for the combined Place 6 and Place 8 and no Field.

How do you get .46%?



( .20 / 13.20 ) / ( 36 / 11 )

You can't get a combined edge without converting to edge per roll.

The average edge for $6 six plus $6 eight plus $6 field is just a weird number though.

( ( .20 / 13.20 ) / ( 36 / 11 ) + ( .20 / 13.20 ) / ( 36 / 11 ) + ( 1/36 ) ) / 3 = .01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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June 13th, 2015 at 9:09:46 AM permalink
So, on average, this HE of this system is about 3 times higher than the HE of the PL? Well, then...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Ahigh
Ahigh
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June 13th, 2015 at 9:14:30 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

So, on average, this HE of this system is about 3 times higher than the HE of the PL? Well, then...



Yeah, the field is a great bet if you're in a hurry! Generally speaking, the field costs exactly 6 times as much as the place bet on the six or eight, and roughly 6 times as much as the passline bet (in both cases considering the edge per roll).

If you want to make a single bet and have it resolve quickly and leave, the field is a better approach than placing the six or eight and waiting for a seven in my opinion. But both strategies employ the exact same cost. You're just less likely to come out with a notable profit on the place bets. Plus you have to wait longer (6 rolls) for the way that people make this bet (until the seven -- nobody comes down on a win on the six and eight in general, that I watch).

If you want your money to last (if you want to actually PLAY the game rather than just take a single risk), the bets that last longer are the better ways to stretch out your losses over a longer period of time.
Steen
Steen
Joined: Apr 7, 2014
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June 13th, 2015 at 12:10:30 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh


You can't get a combined edge without converting to edge per roll.



False. Combined edge can be figured and expressed per resolution or per any metric the user prefers.

Steen
Steen
Steen
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June 13th, 2015 at 2:06:42 PM permalink
Quote: Tanko

I get (10/22x28)-(12/22X24)/24= 1.51% HE for the combined Place 6 and Place 8 and no Field.

How do you get .46%?



0.46% is the edge expressed per roll.

Your numbers look a little strange but the end result of 1.51% is correct. It's the edge expressed per dollar of action. Ordinarily the HE of craps bets are figured per resolution (winning and losing outcomes). However, when figuring multiple simultaneous bets, the term resolution doesn't always apply to the full amount wagered unless all bets resolve at the same time. Because some bets might resolve at different times and different rates, it makes more sense to figure the edge per dollar of action. Action being the amount wagered which was directly responsible for an outcome.

Think about it ... craps is about the rolls, but is it really EVERY roll you're so concerned about? When you bet Place6, are you worried about how many 5's the shooter will throw? Aren't you more concerned about the 6's and 7's which will produce actual wins and losses (resolutions)? And what do you REALLY care about that? Isn't it your money that you really care about when wins and losses occur? Aren't you MOST interested in how those wins and losses relate to the money that you wager?

Well then, what good is a HE that expresses outcome in terms of non-resolving rolls that you don't even care about? A $5 Place5 loses less per roll than a $5 Field (3x12), so should you prefer the Place5 over the Field? If you're hung up on loss per roll you might think so. However, if you care more about your money, then you might be interested to know that the Place5 loses more per dollar of action.

Steen

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