Dice Dealer Tokes in Las Vegas
May 18th, 2015 at 12:19:04 PM
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As a craps dealer in CA, it doesn't take very much for me to tip dealers when I'm on the other side of the table. But in Vegas, save a few casinos, I understand the heavy majority of the casinos pool tips. So, my question is: Do the tokes dice dealers make go into the general pool of tips for all dealers on that gaming day, or are they kept separate?
I'm going to Vegas next week and I'm planning to shoot some craps, so I was curious. I'm going to tip either way, but if I know they get to keep what they make off me I'll give more.
Thank you.
I'm going to Vegas next week and I'm planning to shoot some craps, so I was curious. I'm going to tip either way, but if I know they get to keep what they make off me I'll give more.
Thank you.
May 18th, 2015 at 3:19:01 PM
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I believe all on the strip have one big pool. The only 2 casinos I'm aware of that are go-for-your-own are the Silverton and Westyn....and the Westyn doesn't even have a dice game.
May 19th, 2015 at 8:02:35 AM
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Tipping
For tipping is a question of fairness. I owned a retail bakery for a number of years and our'
help did a good job making sure the people got what they wanted and when they got it
home it looked like what they bought....
In general they got no tips.... and did not ask for any
So when I started playing craps etc I did not tip because I was used to people
doing their jobs without tips. Later when I understood dealers many times make
their money from tips I started tipping. I try to put a dollar on the line and another on
top of my pass line bet and that way they play along when I shoot or if hardways
are active I will place a bet there at times and always a bet on bets like fire bet
or ATS .
What I wont do is place a tip if I am pressures to......period.
dicesetter
For tipping is a question of fairness. I owned a retail bakery for a number of years and our'
help did a good job making sure the people got what they wanted and when they got it
home it looked like what they bought....
In general they got no tips.... and did not ask for any
So when I started playing craps etc I did not tip because I was used to people
doing their jobs without tips. Later when I understood dealers many times make
their money from tips I started tipping. I try to put a dollar on the line and another on
top of my pass line bet and that way they play along when I shoot or if hardways
are active I will place a bet there at times and always a bet on bets like fire bet
or ATS .
What I wont do is place a tip if I am pressures to......period.
dicesetter
May 19th, 2015 at 8:18:04 AM
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Tuscany, hooters, max/Westin, and silverton are go for their own. Max/Westin dice used to at least be open on weekends as of aboot a year ago, eh.
May 19th, 2015 at 12:21:10 PM
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For everyone else that pools their tips, are the craps table tips pooled with all the table games for the shift, or are they just pooled for all the craps dealers on a particular shift?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
May 19th, 2015 at 1:41:22 PM
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Tips are pooled by shift with adjustments for Early Outs.
My understanding is that tips are pooled by PIT. So a dice pit and BJ pit are separate. A Carney Games Pit is separate also.
Please understand that in Las Vegas a casino may arrange to pick up their Drop Boxes at ANY time, but once the schedule has been set, there is a "Two minutes or its Paperwork Time". If more than two minutes early or late, paperwork has to be filled explaining to the tax authorities why there was a deviation.
Tip boxes are treated the same way as drop boxes. Tip boxes are counted by volunteers from the Toke Committee, except at venetian/palazzo where only management counts tips. All tokes go to the Toke Fund, all management fees for the toke fund are paid by the casino from the casino's funds, not from the toke fund. Arrangements for vacation tokes, hardship tokes, berevement tokes are by the Toke Committee.
My understanding is that tips are pooled by PIT. So a dice pit and BJ pit are separate. A Carney Games Pit is separate also.
Please understand that in Las Vegas a casino may arrange to pick up their Drop Boxes at ANY time, but once the schedule has been set, there is a "Two minutes or its Paperwork Time". If more than two minutes early or late, paperwork has to be filled explaining to the tax authorities why there was a deviation.
Tip boxes are treated the same way as drop boxes. Tip boxes are counted by volunteers from the Toke Committee, except at venetian/palazzo where only management counts tips. All tokes go to the Toke Fund, all management fees for the toke fund are paid by the casino from the casino's funds, not from the toke fund. Arrangements for vacation tokes, hardship tokes, berevement tokes are by the Toke Committee.
May 21st, 2015 at 9:51:25 AM
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Quote: aguacroupierAs a craps dealer in CA, it doesn't take very much for me to tip dealers when I'm on the other side of the table. But in Vegas, save a few casinos, I understand the heavy majority of the casinos pool tips. So, my question is: Do the tokes dice dealers make go into the general pool of tips for all dealers on that gaming day, or are they kept separate?
I'm going to Vegas next week and I'm planning to shoot some craps, so I was curious. I'm going to tip either way, but if I know they get to keep what they make off me I'll give more.
Thank you.
There are four casinos in Las Vegas that go "table for table."
1) Silverton Casino
2) Hooters (ownership just changed, FYI)
3) Westin
4) Ellis Island
aahigh.com
May 21st, 2015 at 2:41:39 PM
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Off topic from your question, but I'm curious to how first timers respond to California craps. Is there a general aversion to the game due to California laws, or do people reluctantly accept it, knowing its the best they can get?Quote: aguacroupierAs a craps dealer in CA, it doesn't take very much for me to tip dealers when I'm on the other side of the table. But in Vegas, save a few casinos, I understand the heavy majority of the casinos pool tips. So, my question is: Do the tokes dice dealers make go into the general pool of tips for all dealers on that gaming day, or are they kept separate?
May 22nd, 2015 at 5:06:42 AM
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Quote: AhighThere are four casinos in Las Vegas that go "table for table."
1) Silverton Casino
2) Hooters (ownership just changed, FYI)
3) Westin
4) Ellis Island
this is a subject in which i have great, genuine curiosity...
what does "table for table." mean exactly? how does it relate to "crew for crew" or even to the individual dealer?
a follow up question might be whether anyone attributes this rather rare policy to any perceived difference in service or in "vibe" even...it would also be interesting to know if the change in ownership at Hooters will result, down the line, in any change in policy in this regard...
tom "home runs are often boring" p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
May 22nd, 2015 at 5:12:56 AM
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Quote: betwthelinesthis is a subject in which i have great, genuine curiosity...
what does "table for table." mean exactly? how does it relate to "crew for crew" or even to the individual dealer?
a follow up question might be whether anyone attributes this rather rare policy to any perceived difference in service or in "vibe" even...it would also be interesting to know if the change in ownership at Hooters will result, down the line, in any change in policy in this regard...
tom "home runs are often boring" p
Table for table and crew for crew is the same thing. It's basically "go for your own" (you keep your own tips) -- but that'd be difficult to do on a craps game, so each of the 4 dealers split the tokes. But other dealers (blackjack, roulette, etc.) would go for their own and they wouldn't all share their tips.
May 22nd, 2015 at 5:22:37 AM
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Quote: RSTable for table and crew for crew is the same thing. It's basically "go for your own" (you keep your own tips) -- but that'd be difficult to do on a craps game, so each of the 4 dealers split the tokes. But other dealers (blackjack, roulette, etc.) would go for their own and they wouldn't all share their tips.
ah, i see. thank you.
this "free market"-if-you-will approach is very, very rare indeed...tom "home runs are often boring" p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
June 21st, 2015 at 11:17:01 PM
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Quote: PGBusterOff topic from your question, but I'm curious to how first timers respond to California craps. Is there a general aversion to the game due to California laws, or do people reluctantly accept it, knowing its the best they can get?
General aversion is a good way of putting it, but we do get some decent action occasionally. At the casino I work at, in particular, the players do get to roll dice so they at least have SOME control over what's happening. There are some casinos out here that just pull cards out of an automatic shuffler and what you see is what you get.
A lot of the time, the first-timers who come to the table don't have a very good conception of the game in the first place; they make a fuss about it not being Vegas-style, but are playing $5 on the line with no odds, and occasional field bets. Some people accept it and others don't, but genuine craps players will still give it a go, because the odds are better than any other game in our house.
June 22nd, 2015 at 5:24:54 AM
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Poker uniforms have shirt pockets and if a tip jar is used, the poker dealer takes it with him when he leaves the table.
dealer uniforms lack pockets and tips go into a tip box with a good loud rap and a "toking up a black" sung out.
tip boxes in most casinos are taken at the same time as drop boxes are taken and are pooled. every blackjack dealer in town thinks he carries all the other blackjack dealers who are really unsmiling deadwood that never get tipped. this psychological tip dilution is sometimes the reason a casino switches to table for table or some system wherein dilution is avoided and service is rewarded directly.
the trouble is that some players will play all night and then toke the incoming dice crew or something like that.
Most casinos do allow individual tokes to dice dealers if you speak to the floor person/pit boss about it, but I think it takes five hundred dollars or something. below five hundred they say, tip the crew. above five hundred, and you can tip an individual dice dealer or buy him a new car or something. the casino will handle it. Obviously, its well beyond fleastiff's experience.
dealer uniforms lack pockets and tips go into a tip box with a good loud rap and a "toking up a black" sung out.
tip boxes in most casinos are taken at the same time as drop boxes are taken and are pooled. every blackjack dealer in town thinks he carries all the other blackjack dealers who are really unsmiling deadwood that never get tipped. this psychological tip dilution is sometimes the reason a casino switches to table for table or some system wherein dilution is avoided and service is rewarded directly.
the trouble is that some players will play all night and then toke the incoming dice crew or something like that.
Most casinos do allow individual tokes to dice dealers if you speak to the floor person/pit boss about it, but I think it takes five hundred dollars or something. below five hundred they say, tip the crew. above five hundred, and you can tip an individual dice dealer or buy him a new car or something. the casino will handle it. Obviously, its well beyond fleastiff's experience.
June 22nd, 2015 at 6:04:36 AM
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somewhere on the forum i read it was appropriate to hand out a "gift" in an envelope, away from the table.
But in my case it would feel seriously silly to do this with red or green toke anyway...
But in my case it would feel seriously silly to do this with red or green toke anyway...
June 23rd, 2015 at 12:19:08 PM
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You can always give a dealer a "birthday card".Quote: HornHighYo11somewhere on the forum i read it was appropriate to hand out a "gift" in an envelope, away from the table.
July 17th, 2015 at 11:11:06 AM
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Unfortunately, any tokes will go to a casino pool for that day. They usually go around and collect all the toke boxes around 3:30am-4am right before Grave shift comes in. And that's the cut off period. Anything else dropped in that box after they collected it will go to the next day and so on.
July 17th, 2015 at 11:25:56 AM
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How does that work when the two base dealers, stick person, and box person rotate in and out for breaks and sometimes come back on other tables?Quote: RSTable for table and crew for crew is the same thing. It's basically "go for your own" (you keep your own tips) -- but that'd be difficult to do on a craps game, so each of the 4 dealers split the tokes. But other dealers (blackjack, roulette, etc.) would go for their own and they wouldn't all share their tips.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 17th, 2015 at 5:43:41 PM
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I can't say for vegas but in tunica the tips are pooled by two week pay period then divided among the dealers. Not by shift or by pit.
July 17th, 2015 at 7:26:46 PM
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I've been wondering how tipping in craps works. I've read that tips should be placed on the pass / don't pass line along with odds instead of on middle "sucker" bets. If the bet wins, do the dealers get only the winnings or do they get the base bet/odds as well?
July 18th, 2015 at 3:55:55 PM
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Quote: BlueEagleI've been wondering how tipping in craps works. I've read that tips should be placed on the pass / don't pass line along with odds instead of on middle "sucker" bets. If the bet wins, do the dealers get only the winnings or do they get the base bet/odds as well?
The dealers get the full win. Dealer line bets are popular, and, "Giving them shoes," (Putting Dealer Odds behind) will make you popular with them...lol
They get the win and the original bet. If you want them to have 100% EV, though, you can just toss the chips towards the supervisor and say, "Lock it up." Dealers to whom I have spoken have varied opinions on whether they'd prefer a bet or a hand in.
Some dealers like Center Action because of the pays. That's why, "Two-Way Yo," is a popular bet.
Personally, I like handing it in, but sometimes bet if I have a hot hand...even though it doesn't affect the probability of them winning.
Regardless of what you bet, a good crew will always thank you for the try on a loss. I'm known as a solid tipper, but if a crew were to fail, more than once, to thank me for the bet, then they've got everything they're going to get from me that day.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
July 18th, 2015 at 4:30:24 PM
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If it's a player service bet, you actually have to hand them the winnings afterwards, they won't typically take it from you. If it's a dealer service bet, which most bets are, the default is for the dealers to lock up everything. If you want them to stay up with you for more than one win, or do parlays or something, you need to announce "my control" when you hand in the bet. For example, I often tip in odds on come points of 4 or 10. If I'm playing $10+$30 on odds, most (but not all) casinos will let me do $10 come, $30 odds for me, $1-5 odds for the dealer, my control. Or if the box is grumpy and says no, I'll just bet $25 odds for me and use the headroom for the crew. If the 4s are rolling, I'll press the wins for the dealers and keep their odds riding.Quote: BlueEagleI've been wondering how tipping in craps works. I've read that tips should be placed on the pass / don't pass line along with odds instead of on middle "sucker" bets. If the bet wins, do the dealers get only the winnings or do they get the base bet/odds as well?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
July 18th, 2015 at 4:57:44 PM
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That's interesting, most places I have played on player service bets, the Dealer has still picked up any line bets. I suppose there have been one or two where I've had to toss the bet/winnings, but I'd have assumed that to be the exception.
That said, I rarely make dealer bets and have probably only played Craps in 10-15 unique casinos, over half of those I've probably only EVER done hand ins.
That said, I rarely make dealer bets and have probably only played Craps in 10-15 unique casinos, over half of those I've probably only EVER done hand ins.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
July 26th, 2015 at 12:40:22 PM
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The ONLY toke bet you should make at Wheeling Island Hotel-Casino-Racetrack is $1 each on the six and eight. It pays $3 and down. You can make the $1 five and nine too which also pays $3 and down.Quote: Mission146That's interesting, most places I have played on player service bets, the Dealer has still picked up any line bets. I suppose there have been one or two where I've had to toss the bet/winnings, but I'd have assumed that to be the exception.
That said, I rarely make dealer bets and have probably only played Craps in 10-15 unique casinos, over half of those I've probably only EVER done hand ins.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
July 26th, 2015 at 12:52:24 PM
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Quote: teddysThe ONLY toke bet you should make at Wheeling Island Hotel-Casino-Racetrack is $1 each on the six and eight. It pays $3 and down. You can make the $1 five and nine too which also pays $3 and down.
Wait wtf?
Is it table for table?
July 26th, 2015 at 1:42:49 PM
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Depends. When placing the bet, say "Player control" or "Piggyback". Then they will only take the winnings, and your toke bet stays in action.Quote: BlueEagleIf the toke bet wins, do the dealers get only the winnings or do they get the base bet/odds as well?
In AC, there's a similar rule, the result of a lawsuit, where the 5, 6, 8 and 9 round up to pay $2 to $1. Some AC casinos would allow player control. Others would not. Some even had pink $2.50 chip on the table so they could save 50¢ - but they were also the casinos that would not allow player control. (I.E. The $1 goes into the bank, the $2.50 goes to the toke box, effectively paying 1.5 to 1.)Quote: teddysThe ONLY toke bet you should make at Wheeling Island Hotel-Casino-Racetrack is $1 each on the six and eight. It pays $3 and down. You can make the $1 five and nine too which also pays $3 and down.
I talk about it here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/tables/9306-best-dealer-toke-craps-place-1-on-5-6-8-and-9-pays-2-and-piggyback-it/
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 27th, 2015 at 10:22:21 PM
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Quote: teddysThe ONLY toke bet you should make at Wheeling Island Hotel-Casino-Racetrack is $1 each on the six and eight. It pays $3 and down. You can make the $1 five and nine too which also pays $3 and down.
I'll remember that, I usually just hand it in there unless I'm killing it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 10th, 2015 at 1:09:21 AM
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Most joints make the dealers take down any winning bets UNLESS the player specifies "player control", then the house should bend some and allow the player whatever latitude necessary. Where I work, on my shift our crew pretty much has a "green light" when it comes to leaving some $ in action, parleys, and pressing up dealer P.B.'s as long as we don't end up with a larger bet than the original toker. This kind of toke policy is extremely rare, and at times causes the crew to blow much more than they would normally.
August 10th, 2015 at 4:53:31 AM
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I asked this question at Caesars Palace and I was told your tip at the craps table was divided among 400 dealers.
But if you tip on a handpay at slots it's divided among 30.
But if you tip on a handpay at slots it's divided among 30.
August 10th, 2015 at 5:59:00 PM
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My (beginner craps) play is PL with odds, place 6&8, all 2-way. When 6 or 8 wins, I have learned (from the crew) that they want me to tell them to press the 6/8 bet three times (until it gets to 8, where they take 2 and leave 6 up) and let that keep working at odds. This was a Harrah's LV crew that started me doing this, FWIW. It never occurred to me that I could dictate how those bets were treated. Any other game I've played, the stakes won/lost and were taken except on a push (or on LIR, a push-back).
Another crew was taking only the winnings and leaving up the stakes on the 6/8, for which I think they had me agree to do that the first time it happened: I don't think they can decide that, but I have the ability to decide it, and they were trying to help (and get their tokes without it costing me so much money). The first couple times, I was replacing the bet on every 6/8 win, which was very expensive, but it served my purposes well in "tuition", especially when the table went on a heater and my 200 stake turned into 1200 my second time playing, with the dealers in on every part of it; they were incredibly attentive, making sure I didn't miss a pay or a round, even though the table was moving very fast for me. (If you count tips towards winnings, I think they made about 200 from me that night, plus the 1000 net, so a win/win.)
Another crew was taking only the winnings and leaving up the stakes on the 6/8, for which I think they had me agree to do that the first time it happened: I don't think they can decide that, but I have the ability to decide it, and they were trying to help (and get their tokes without it costing me so much money). The first couple times, I was replacing the bet on every 6/8 win, which was very expensive, but it served my purposes well in "tuition", especially when the table went on a heater and my 200 stake turned into 1200 my second time playing, with the dealers in on every part of it; they were incredibly attentive, making sure I didn't miss a pay or a round, even though the table was moving very fast for me. (If you count tips towards winnings, I think they made about 200 from me that night, plus the 1000 net, so a win/win.)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 14th, 2015 at 3:59:29 PM
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I bet the dice dealers loved you. That's awesome.
I was on vacation passing through the Aria a couple months ago and saw there was a dead quarter game, so I bought in with my measly $500 and played $100 outside with a minimum line bet and $50 odds. Anyway, to let the crew know I was about it, every come out roll I bet a $10 horn-high midnight (because clearly I have no regard for managing my money) with a $5 C&E for the dealers; each time crap or yo came in, I'd press us both a nickel each. I had one sequence that went 2-crap, 12-crap, 12-crap, yo, so by the end the dealers were going $160 and down. It was very cool.
My rolls were nothing special. I made a few points here and there, and hit five 9s in a row (even though I was only pressing a quarter each time), which was memorable. When I got up to $1,000 I ran, even knowing $500 wasn't a very large profit on a $25 table. I imagine the dealers probably banked as much as I did, so it was a very fun hour.
I was on vacation passing through the Aria a couple months ago and saw there was a dead quarter game, so I bought in with my measly $500 and played $100 outside with a minimum line bet and $50 odds. Anyway, to let the crew know I was about it, every come out roll I bet a $10 horn-high midnight (because clearly I have no regard for managing my money) with a $5 C&E for the dealers; each time crap or yo came in, I'd press us both a nickel each. I had one sequence that went 2-crap, 12-crap, 12-crap, yo, so by the end the dealers were going $160 and down. It was very cool.
My rolls were nothing special. I made a few points here and there, and hit five 9s in a row (even though I was only pressing a quarter each time), which was memorable. When I got up to $1,000 I ran, even knowing $500 wasn't a very large profit on a $25 table. I imagine the dealers probably banked as much as I did, so it was a very fun hour.
August 15th, 2015 at 12:37:19 AM
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Vegas casinos usually allow a player to make a toke bet for the dealers but to declare it to be "under player control". this would make your 6/8 bets easily manipulated by you and not solely at a "it wins or it loses" pace.
I rarely make two-way bets, I simply put out two separate bets. this lets the "news" travel around the table and the entire crew knows they've got a friend.
craps games can be pretty fast and with my arithmetic skills, I tend to not get too fancy in my betting. Once I was merely passing by a dead table and the desperate crew called out to me, but I declined saying "I could never figure out where the tiny little goal posts are in that game". However, I then relented and bought in for a short stack since I had been having several days of miserable luck. when the dealers saw me set out two DontPass bets, they said something about "sir, you have the goal down pat"!
I rarely make two-way bets, I simply put out two separate bets. this lets the "news" travel around the table and the entire crew knows they've got a friend.
craps games can be pretty fast and with my arithmetic skills, I tend to not get too fancy in my betting. Once I was merely passing by a dead table and the desperate crew called out to me, but I declined saying "I could never figure out where the tiny little goal posts are in that game". However, I then relented and bought in for a short stack since I had been having several days of miserable luck. when the dealers saw me set out two DontPass bets, they said something about "sir, you have the goal down pat"!
September 14th, 2015 at 8:46:08 PM
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Tipping the dice crew as a rule is so ambiguous and different from casino to casino that it's tough to know any given protocol any single table. If you have the good fortune to land at a table where ALL personnel are friendly, competent and as helpful as possible, and you feel they've enriched your time at a game, then toking should be given...how much? Well, how much fun did you have and how much extra $$ did you make due to some hardworking dealer analyzing your playing style and making sure your Pass Line odds were maxed, the way you like it, and the rest of your action on the layout was always in sync with your basic craps strategy? Mike Vernon has a great article here http://www.dicesetter.com/mp/dmad126tip.htm that deals with the two sets of rules found at most craps tables concerning toke/no toke service to the players...enlightening and absolutely spot on. On the other hand, if you find yourself butting heads with a crew of turnouts and burnouts and don't receive acceptable service and find yourself leaving the game prematurely on tilt due the crew and boxman, then f$%^ 'em...they reap what they sow...give their 10 % to a titty dancer...
