Joeman
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
• Posts: 2094
May 14th, 2015 at 6:18:06 AM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

So i practiced on the wizards craps game as follows:
Make a pass bet
If point established
Make a come bet
Once i have a pass and come bet
Make 1 field bet

Did this for an hour and bankroll looked good

Rich, be advised that the Wizard's craps game features a 3:1 payout on the 12 for a 2.78% house edge on the field bet. You might want to check the tables before you place a field bet because many properties offer only 2:1 payouts on the 2 & 12. This will double the house edge to 5.56%. The way to check is to look at the numbers on field bet layout on the table itself. The 2 and the 12 at the ends of the line of numbers will be circled with a notation above (or possibly below). If above the 12 (sometimes, but rarely, it will be above the 2 instead) the notation reads "Pays Triple," then the bet will have the 2.78% edge. If both notations say "Pays Double," it is the 5.56% edge variety.

Now, despite what my sig may imply, I have never been to AC, but there are several AC guys (& gals) on the forum. Some of them might be able to tell you which variety of field bet payouts are available at which casinos. Unfortunately, my gut tells me that the two properties you mentioned (both owned by Caeser's Entertainment -- referred to by the acronym "CET" often on this site) will have the stingy 5.56% payout. CET properties are often notorious for offering unfavorable (for the player) rules on their games.

Now, since I have no direct knowledge, I could very well be wrong about this. Like I stated above, you may want to see if some of the AC craps players on the forum can tell you which casinos have the lower edge field bets.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 14th, 2015 at 6:25:25 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

Rich, be advised that the Wizard's craps game features a 3:1 payout on the 12 for a 2.78% house edge on the field bet. You might want to check the tables before you place a field bet because many properties offer only 2:1 payouts on the 2 & 12. This will double the house edge to 5.56%. The way to check is to look at the numbers on field bet layout on the table itself. The 2 and the 12 at the ends of the line of numbers will be circled with a notation above (or possibly below). If above the 12 (sometimes, but rarely, it will be above the 2 instead) the notation reads "Pays Triple," then the bet will have the 2.78% edge. If both notations say "Pays Double," it is the 5.56% edge variety.

Now, despite what my sig may imply, I have never been to AC, but there are several AC guys (& gals) on the forum. Some of them might be able to tell you which variety of field bet payouts are available at which casinos. Unfortunately, my gut tells me that the two properties you mentioned (both owned by Caeser's Entertainment -- referred to by the acronym "CET" often on this site) will have the stingy 5.56% payout. CET properties are often notorious for offering unfavorable (for the player) rules on their games.

Now, since I have no direct knowledge, I could very well be wrong about this. Like I stated above, you may want to see if some of the AC craps players on the forum can tell you which casinos have the lower edge field bets.

Thanks

My local bubble craps pays triple on the 2 and 12 which is nice
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
whodat
Joined: May 11, 2015
• Posts: 104
May 14th, 2015 at 8:21:34 AM permalink
Hi Rich,

I am a newbie here and late to the party when contributing to your question but here goes. The odds bet has 0% HE. Some people advocate maxing out on the odds bet to decrease your overall HE. The problem with this approach is that you are exposing more money to the HE. For instance, if you bet \$5 pass line, in the long run you expect to lose \$.07 (1.4% of \$5). If you add double odds (\$10), you decrease the overall HE to 0.572% but your loss would be \$0.086 (0.572% of \$15). Your fluctuation would be greater as your win/loss would be greater. If you have the bank roll and can withstand the ups and downs, this would be a good way to play craps.
To answer your question as to if there is a time in which you should or should not take or lay odds, it depends on your bank roll, on if you are a pure math guy or a guy who sometimes rely on his intuition, on the feel of the table (hot, cold, choppy). Personally i like 3-4-5 odds (since my bank roll is ok for it) because I have a better chance of hitting the 6/8>5/9>4/10 so I bet more on those numbers.
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
May 14th, 2015 at 8:55:21 AM permalink
Quote: whodat

The odds bet has 0% HE.

TRUE and only true if the amount bet is a proper unit of the payout.
Quote: whodat

Some people advocate maxing out on the odds bet to decrease your overall HE.

TRUE
the combined HE
Quote: whodat

The problem with this approach is that you are exposing more money to the HE.

FALSE
Quote: whodat

For instance, if you bet \$5 pass line, in the long run you expect to lose \$.07 (1.4% of \$5).

TRUE per bet
average bet = \$5
Quote: whodat

If you add double odds (\$10), you decrease the overall HE to 0.572% but your loss would be \$0.086 (0.572% of \$15).

FALSE
the avg bet does not equal \$15
this is known as an Enron Accounting method (from my understanding)

MAYbe this can help
1/3 \$5 is resolved
2/3 \$15 is resolved
math required

i show the combined HE (for 2x odds) is simply -7/495 * 1/(2 1/3) = -7/1155
fyi: 1/(2 1/3) = 1/(7/3)

i think we are on the same page
I Heart Vi Hart
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
May 14th, 2015 at 1:05:28 PM permalink
Quote: whodat

To answer your question as to if there is a time in which you should or should not take or lay odds, it
1) depends on your bank roll,
2) on if you are a pure math guy
3) or a guy who sometimes rely on his intuition,
4) on the feel of the table (hot, cold, choppy).

lots and lots of choices there
btw, a guy's intuition, haha and yuk, stay with a women's - they rule at craps

can one choose more than one from your list?
like 4C2
or
4P2
because for some, order matters
and for others
they do not really care about the order of this stuff
Quote: whodat

Personally i like 3-4-5 odds (since my bank roll is ok for it) because
I have a better chance of hitting the 6/8>5/9>4/10 so I bet more on those numbers.

but the 6 and 8 odds only pays 6 to 5
and the 4&10, while their frequency is less that the 6&8, they pay more than the 6&8 at 2 to 1

i say,imo, bet more on the numbers that pay more
wait
did i say that? Oh
Oh yes, I am a Lay bet expert but that is a different animal than any line bet ever will B

OP should be confused by now or even more ready to hit the craps tables
it will be his party
I Heart Vi Hart
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
May 14th, 2015 at 1:13:01 PM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

My local bubble craps pays triple on the 2 and 12 which is nice

you B lucky
is that the 3 dice interblock organic craps machine?
here in CA they pay 2x on the 2 and 3x on the 12

i do not recall seeing organic craps in Las Vegas but the "shoot to win" craps machines
can be heard all over town!
I Heart Vi Hart
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 14th, 2015 at 2:55:38 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

you B lucky
is that the 3 dice interblock organic craps machine?
here in CA they pay 2x on the 2 and 3x on the 12

i do not recall seeing organic craps in Las Vegas but the "shoot to win" craps machines
can be heard all over town!

hmmmm im not sure if interblock but i think it is

yea played martingale on it with \$15, field only...won \$200

dumb move on my part but man field was hot for my time there

when ya have drinks in ya ya do dumb thangs
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
betwthelines
Joined: Jan 2, 2015
• Posts: 171
May 15th, 2015 at 4:11:17 AM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

My local bubble craps pays triple on the 2 and 12 which is nice

IS THIS TRUE!!??? triple on BOTH the 2 & 12?? I have been searching in vain for the rumored availability of this free (no vig) bet...WHERE is this "local bubble craps" might i ask??!
tom "home runs are often boring" p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 15th, 2015 at 5:37:29 AM permalink
Quote: betwthelines

IS THIS TRUE!!??? triple on BOTH the 2 & 12?? I have been searching in vain for the rumored availability of this free (no vig) bet...WHERE is this "local bubble craps" might i ask??!
tom "home runs are often boring" p

I might be wrong. Sorry. Just on the 12 i believe

Yes just the 12 i checked a pic i took. Sorry

Double on 2 triple on 12
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
betwthelines
Joined: Jan 2, 2015
• Posts: 171
May 15th, 2015 at 6:22:25 AM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

I might be wrong. Sorry. Just on the 12 i believe

Yes just the 12 i checked a pic i took. Sorry

Double on 2 triple on 12

thanks for checking...it's an oft alleged rumor...have posted inquiries on this and other forums looking for it. no luck. i have called to a couple of different casinos (in the albuquerque area, which is in fact a hotbed for free buys on the 4 & 10) and they claimed that they USED TO have it but no longer offer it...still looking...tom "home runs are often boring" p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974