richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 11th, 2015 at 2:44:27 PM permalink
When playing pass or don't pass are there times where you should or shouldn't place odds?

Example: you bet don't pass

the roll is a 4 or 9, since the house edge for betting on these two are high this is a time to place odds behind your don't pass bet, correct?

Example: you bet don't pass

the roll is a 6 or 8.....don't place odds because they are more common?

thanks
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
• Posts: 5418
May 11th, 2015 at 2:51:04 PM permalink
Odds bets pay off in direct proportion to how likely you are to win or lose.

For example, if you bet don't pass and the point is 6, an odds bet will win 6/11 of the time, but it only pays 5-6 (so if you bet \$6, you will win \$5 six times out of 11 and lose \$6 five times out of eleven; not coincidentally, after 11 such bets, you break even).

The same thing applies when the point is 4, 5, 8, 9, or 10 (except that the odds are 1-2 on 4 and 10, and 2-3 on 5 and 9), and when your original bet is pass (except that now you get the high end of the odds - e.g. if the point is 4, it pays 2-1 instead of 1-2).
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 11th, 2015 at 2:58:13 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Odds bets pay off in direct proportion to how likely you are to win or lose.

For example, if you bet don't pass and the point is 6, an odds bet will win 6/11 of the time, but it only pays 5-6 (so if you bet \$6, you will win \$5 six times out of 11 and lose \$6 five times out of eleven; not coincidentally, after 11 such bets, you break even).

The same thing applies when the point is 4, 5, 8, 9, or 10 (except that the odds are 1-2 on 4 and 10, and 2-3 on 5 and 9), and when your original bet is pass (except that now you get the high end of the odds - e.g. if the point is 4, it pays 2-1 instead of 1-2).

ok so based on the number rolled you may or may not want to play odds

meaning if a 6 or 8 is rolled and you are on dont pass then do not place odds?

also, you can only place chips on "dont come" after a point is established right?

thanks
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
May 12th, 2015 at 6:14:09 AM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

ok so based on the number rolled you may or may not want to play odds

meaning if a 6 or 8 is rolled and you are on dont pass then do not place odds?

i say
it depends if you think/feel the dice will be in your favor or not over the next bets you make

if the dice do as expected, you do not win or lose any money on the odds bet
so it can be up to you, it can B

example:
you now have a don't come 6

say you lay \$6 to win \$5 on the lay odds
there are 6 ways to win \$5 (\$30 total)
5 ways to lose \$6 (-\$30 total)

so over the very next 11 bets and the dice do their average thing
it is a wash - a push

you need one more win to have a profit
you need one more loss to have a loss over those 11 bets

nothing guaranteed in writing that you get one over the other
except the math shows for those 11 bets a probability = 0.3852774 for at least 7 wins
0.3786313 for 5 or less wins in 11 attempts

try out the other numbers and you will see the same thing
==============================
bottom line
over a lifetime of play your odds bet (per bet) will lose very close to 0%(maybe even exactly 0% but do not count on it)
of the total wagered
but the chances increase with more odds bets you make
that you will
either
or
a net lifetime loss from those odds bets
and it cant be both

Quote: richbailey86

also, you can only place chips on "dont come" after a point is established right?

thanks

yes
you can place it there on the come out roll but the dealer if they notice it will either move it to the dpass
or give it back to you telling you can not make this bet unless a point is established
I Heart Vi Hart
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 13th, 2015 at 2:47:07 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

i say
it depends if you think/feel the dice will be in your favor or not over the next bets you make

if the dice do as expected, you do not win or lose any money on the odds bet
so it can be up to you, it can B

example:
you now have a don't come 6

say you lay \$6 to win \$5 on the lay odds
there are 6 ways to win \$5 (\$30 total)
5 ways to lose \$6 (-\$30 total)

so over the very next 11 bets and the dice do their average thing
it is a wash - a push

you need one more win to have a profit
you need one more loss to have a loss over those 11 bets

nothing guaranteed in writing that you get one over the other
except the math shows for those 11 bets a probability = 0.3852774 for at least 7 wins
0.3786313 for 5 or less wins in 11 attempts

try out the other numbers and you will see the same thing
==============================
bottom line
over a lifetime of play your odds bet (per bet) will lose very close to 0%(maybe even exactly 0% but do not count on it)
of the total wagered
but the chances increase with more odds bets you make
that you will
either
or
a net lifetime loss from those odds bets
and it cant be both

yes
you can place it there on the come out roll but the dealer if they notice it will either move it to the dpass
or give it back to you telling you can not make this bet unless a point is established

thanks

i will be in AC in June for my bachelor party and i think i will play this way

some bets on pass line then after a point is made make a come bet

and also lay the 4 and 10 since i think thats a good bet to

this game is getting easier and easier the more i learn

however my luck says if i lay the 4 the 4 will come, a lot
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
May 13th, 2015 at 3:09:58 PM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

however my luck says if i lay the 4 the 4 will come, a lot

it has to me
i think i lost 6 in a row one time on the Strip
the table laughed at me and some players did too

so i had more money and increased my Lay 4 and asked each shooter are they going to cause my bet to lose
I think i won the next 5 or 6 but my wins were way higher than my losses

one of the fun parts of playing craps

Have fun if that is possible!

I be in Vegas from May 22 to May 28 (event #3 WSOP)
I know i will have fun
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 13th, 2015 at 3:43:26 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

it has to me
i think i lost 6 in a row one time on the Strip
the table laughed at me and some players did too

so i had more money and increased my Lay 4 and asked each shooter are they going to cause my bet to lose
I think i won the next 5 or 6 but my wins were way higher than my losses

one of the fun parts of playing craps

Have fun if that is possible!

I be in Vegas from May 22 to May 28 (event #3 WSOP)
I know i will have fun
Sally

wish i could come

i will be in AC at cesars and harrahs weekend of june 12th (im on east coast)

the thing i realized today while looking over craps stuff is if u lay the 4 u will win a lot more then u lose, however u only get PAID HALF...theres the HE
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
May 13th, 2015 at 5:04:55 PM permalink
Quote: richbailey86

the thing i realized today while looking over craps stuff is if u lay the 4 u will win a lot more then u lose, however u only get PAID HALF...theres the HE

not really
on a Lay or Buy bet the casino pays your winning bet in direct proportion to the odds against the bet winning

examples

bet \$20
chances to win are 3 in 9
odds 6:3 or (2:1)
so you are paid on a win \$2 for every \$1 bet
so \$20 pays \$40
there is no HE
the casino knows this so they charge either 5% of the bet when the bet is made or \$5 of the bet when it wins
there is the house edge

all Buy bets are dogs, they lose more often than they win
that is exactly why they pay more than what is bet

Lay 4
bet \$40
chances to win are 6 in 9 (66.67%) <<<--- Yahoo!!
odds 3:6 or (1:2)
so you are paid on a win \$1 for every \$2 bet
so \$40 pays \$20
and you do get the bet back too

again
there is no HE

the casino knows this and wants their cut
so they either charge 5% of how much one can win (\$1 in me example)
or
5% of the win once the bet wins (i say 50% do one, 50% the other)

all Lay bets are favorites, they win more often than they lose
and they win on ANY 7
that is exactly why they pay less than what is bet

like sports betting on the odds on favorite

Angles OVER!

Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
champ724
Joined: May 13, 2015
• Posts: 64
May 13th, 2015 at 5:08:19 PM permalink
does vegas make you pay the vig upfront or when the bet hits?
richbailey86
Joined: May 8, 2014
• Posts: 325
May 14th, 2015 at 3:48:51 AM permalink
I think its different on east and west coast but not sure

For me having a sound betting technique works better for me cause i hate thinking under pressure

So i practiced on the wizards craps game as follows:
Make a pass bet
If point established
Make a come bet
Once i have a pass and come bet
Make 1 field bet

Did this for an hour and bankroll looked good
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. – Ron Paul