Joined: Jan 21, 2012
• Posts: 42
February 17th, 2015 at 7:35:00 PM permalink
The casino where i play offers 10x odds on every number. Ive been studying put bets and i understand that they are better than place bets or buy bets with 10x odds or better. I want to start making put bets on the 6 and 8 on every round of play but im not sure if that is possible. My question is this. Can a put bet be placed on any number during a round or does the put bet have to be placed only on the point that the dice thrower makes. That would mean i would have to wait untill he throws a 6 or 8 to make my put bet right?? am i missing something here?? I want to have a five dollar flat bet with 50 dollar odds on the six and 8 every round if possible. Thanks for any advice i can get.
Winner 7! Pay the line
ontariodealer
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
• Posts: 999
February 17th, 2015 at 7:58:08 PM permalink
A put bet can be made at any time on any number. Do you really think your bottom line will change drastically from 60 wins 70 to 55 wins 65????
get second you pig
Joined: Jan 21, 2012
• Posts: 42
February 17th, 2015 at 8:03:00 PM permalink
thanks for the reply. If im going to make a flat bet with ten times odds it might as well be on the 2 most frequent numbers next to the seven. not sure if it will affect my bottom line or not but if i can put with odds on the six or 8 as opposed to the 4 5 9 or 10 i think my win rate will increase in a short term game.
Winner 7! Pay the line
ontariodealer
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
• Posts: 999
February 17th, 2015 at 9:46:49 PM permalink
spadeknight my point is you can place 6/8 for 60 bucks and win 70. When you put bet them, 5 with 50 you will win 65 but you will also lose the underlying \$5 bet if a point is made and then a comeout 7 is thrown. Maybe the math guys here can tell you your edge. but it must be miniscule.
get second you pig
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
February 17th, 2015 at 10:01:01 PM permalink
Quote: ontariodealer

Maybe the math guys here can tell you your edge. but it must be miniscule.

for any place bet 6 or 8 the house edge is -1/66 or abouts -1.515% (per bet resolved, of course)

double-checks
-0.2 / 13.2
yep

put bet on 6 & 8 for 5/50 looks to be -1/121 or abouts -0.8264% (odds always working)

double-checks
-0.2 / 24.2
yep

not quite twice
but nice

win big and have fun!
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
betwthelines
Joined: Jan 2, 2015
• Posts: 171
February 17th, 2015 at 10:06:05 PM permalink
yes. the bottom line will change, tho like you say, probably not drastically...it is when you are losing a lot and thus losing \$5 less with the put bet where it might add up to some degree significantly in terms of dollars saved...but either way the win is \$10 more than your bet so if you are fortunately winning a lot you get the \$10 with a lower risk...the put bet with 10x odds is slightly superior, which the math, that i have no clue how to do, would show...tom p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
FatGeezus
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
• Posts: 548
February 18th, 2015 at 9:06:37 AM permalink

The casino where i play offers 10x odds on every number. Ive been studying put bets and i understand that they are better than place bets or buy bets with 10x odds or better. I want to start making put bets on the 6 and 8 on every round of play but im not sure if that is possible. My question is this. Can a put bet be placed on any number during a round or does the put bet have to be placed only on the point that the dice thrower makes. THAT WOULD MEAN I WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL HE THROWS A 6 OR 8 TO MAKE MY PUT BET RIGHT? AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?? I want to have a five dollar flat bet with 50 dollar odds on the six and 8 every round if possible. Thanks for any advice i can get.

What you are missing is the fact that if you had placed the 6 or 8 you would have already won.

And yes I am a place better.
goatcabin
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
• Posts: 665
February 18th, 2015 at 11:50:50 AM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

The casino where i play offers 10x odds on every number. Ive been studying put bets and i understand that they are better than place bets or buy bets with 10x odds or better. I want to start making put bets on the 6 and 8 on every round of play but im not sure if that is possible. My question is this. Can a put bet be placed on any number during a round or does the put bet have to be placed only on the point that the dice thrower makes. THAT WOULD MEAN I WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL HE THROWS A 6 OR 8 TO MAKE MY PUT BET RIGHT? AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?? I want to have a five dollar flat bet with 50 dollar odds on the six and 8 every round if possible. Thanks for any advice i can get.

What you are missing is the fact that if you had placed the 6 or 8 you would have already won.

\\As I understand what spadeknight is saying, you would only have already won if the place bet(s) was/were working on the comeout. IOW:

comeout roll: some point established
FatGeezus places 6/8
spadeknight makes put bets \$5/\$50 on 6 and 8

As Sally points out, spadeknight has a lower edge working against him. His expected loss is half of FatGeezus'. Over 60 bets, that's a \$27 advantage for the put bets. The variance is slightly higher for the place bets.
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
PBguy
Joined: Sep 4, 2013
• Posts: 278
February 18th, 2015 at 1:01:26 PM permalink
AFAIK you can make a put bet at any time. So before the come out roll simply do a put bet with odds on the 6/8 and say "odds are working". If a 7 is rolled you lose it all of course. If the 6 or 8 rolls you win but you can leave your put bet up.
betwthelines
Joined: Jan 2, 2015
• Posts: 171
February 20th, 2015 at 3:36:00 AM permalink
Quote: PBguy

AFAIK you can make a put bet at any time. So before the come out roll simply do a put bet with odds on the 6/8 and say "odds are working". If a 7 is rolled you lose it all of course. If the 6 or 8 rolls you win but you can leave your put bet up.

My local casino doesn't allow put bets...Or do they? It is a 5x odds place and, for example, if one has a \$5 flat, either pass or come, and wants to take \$30 odds, they will ALLOW you to "put" a dollar on the flat in order for you to get your \$30 odds...whenever i point out this inconsistency in policy, i just get that "deer in the headlights" look from them (except from the one or two grizzled suits that actually understand the theory behind the game and, of course, they just shrug their shoulders and allow that there really is no explaining it)...not allowing put bets is only one of their inexplicable, shoot-ourselves-in-the-foot rules: they also will, get this, NOT ALLOW you to bet \$5 on the 6 or 8...No. it HAS TO BE increments of \$6...nice little newbie--and not-so-newbie--player advantage policy but idiotic from a house standpoint...o, well...tom p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
betwthelines
Joined: Jan 2, 2015
• Posts: 171
February 20th, 2015 at 3:47:11 AM permalink
Quote: betwthelines

...they also will, get this, NOT ALLOW you to bet \$5 on the 6 or 8...No. it HAS TO BE increments of \$6...

substantially but not completely accurate: only the first increment needs to be \$6...you are "allowed" to go, for example, \$10 but, or course would only be paid flat on \$4 of it...tom p
"You can't EXPECT to win. But you CAN play Tough"...tom p, 1974
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
• Posts: 9310
February 20th, 2015 at 3:51:55 AM permalink
why not allow a \$5 bet and pay \$5 on the win?

btw I don't get what the player advantage bit is?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder