100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
• Posts: 3111
August 10th, 2014 at 6:52:28 PM permalink
I used to put \$1 Any Craps. if I hit, I parley with \$1 each on 2,3, and 12.

Just re-read Wiz's page on Craps.

Any Craps is 11% house edge.
2 and 12 = 14% HE
3 = 11% HE

so between \$3 on Any Craps and \$1 each on 2,3, and 12 -> Any Craps is better?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 14484
August 10th, 2014 at 7:15:34 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

so between \$3 on Any Craps and \$1 each on 2,3, and 12 -> Any Craps is better?

It would seem so but despite the progress that I am making in my math drills I can't quite figure out how many pennies better it is.

If you are on the PassLine why do that "Dollar Any Craps" stuff. It really subtracts from your PassLine bet and that is already at a very low house edge.
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
• Posts: 3321
August 10th, 2014 at 8:23:50 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

I used to put \$1 Any Craps. if I hit, I parley with \$1 each on 2,3, and 12.

Just re-read Wiz's page on Craps.

Any Craps is 11% house edge.
2 and 12 = 14% HE
3 = 11% HE

so between \$3 on Any Craps and \$1 each on 2,3, and 12 -> Any Craps is better?

Now try to figure out which is better, \$1 hop each of the 7s or \$3 big red.
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5139
August 10th, 2014 at 8:44:38 PM permalink
Asking which bet between any craps and a hi, lo, or ace-deuce on this forum is like asking what's worse between a D+ and a D- on a forum about how to get straight A's.

I often found myself laughing watching people who claimed to be able to influence the dice betting things like crap checks and yo's.

Mistaking luck for skill is the foundation of many casinos. High-paying bets are the bread-and-butter of casinos because the higher the pay, the higher the edge that will be tolerated by the recipient.
PBguy
Joined: Sep 4, 2013
• Posts: 278
August 10th, 2014 at 11:11:33 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

I used to put \$1 Any Craps. if I hit, I parley with \$1 each on 2,3, and 12.

Just re-read Wiz's page on Craps.

Any Craps is 11% house edge.
2 and 12 = 14% HE
3 = 11% HE

so between \$3 on Any Craps and \$1 each on 2,3, and 12 -> Any Craps is better?

Let's assume you get paid 4 times - once for a 12, once for a 2, and twice for a 3:

Betting \$3 Any Craps pays \$7*3*4 = \$84

Betting \$1 3-way craps pays \$28*2+\$13*2 = \$82

Now if you catch more 2's and 12's than 3's then you would make more money with the 3 way craps bet instead of the \$3 any craps.
Joined: Jul 7, 2012
• Posts: 224
August 11th, 2014 at 6:25:05 AM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Now try to figure out which is better, \$1 hop each of the 7s or \$3 big red.

This one is easy. Each of the hops pay 15:1 and Any Seven pays 4:1, with the probability of hitting them being identical (since they are, in fact, the same thing).

The bet is \$3 in each case.

If you hit the hop you get back \$16 (\$15 plus your original \$1 bet) for one of the combinations.

For the Any Seven, you get back \$15 (\$12 plus your original \$3 bet).

Since \$16 > \$15, you are better hopping the Sevens.

Darth
7-out, line away, pay the don't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esEcwAWi6dk
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
• Posts: 4678
August 11th, 2014 at 6:45:07 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

I used to put \$1 Any Craps. if I hit, I parley with \$1 each on 2,3, and 12.

Just re-read Wiz's page on Craps.

Any Craps is 11% house edge.
2 and 12 = 14% HE
3 = 11% HE

so between \$3 on Any Craps and \$1 each on 2,3, and 12 -> Any Craps is better?

Assuming Any Craps pays 7-1:
1/9 of the time, you roll 2, 3, or 12, and are +21
8/9 of the time, you are -3
The EV = (21 x 1/9) - (3 x 8/9) = -1/3

Assuming 11 pays 15-1 and 2 and 12 each pay 30-1:
1/18 of the time, you roll 2 or 12 and are +30 - 2 = +28
1/18 of the time, you roll 11 and are +15 - 2 = +13
8/9 of the time, you are -3
The EV = (28 x 1/18) + (13 x 1/18) - (3 x 8/9) = 41/18 - 24/9 = -7/18

Any Craps is slightly better (by \$1 for every six rolls)
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
• Posts: 417
August 18th, 2014 at 8:59:50 PM permalink
My two cents:

Piecemeal:

Even if you bet two units on the 3 (to balance the comparison), in 36 rolls

2 pays 30:1 - 3:3 = 27:4
3 pays (30:2 - 2:2) x 2 = 56:8
12 pays 27:4
4 through 11 "pays" -4:4 x 32 = -128:128

The total = -18:144 or -12.5% (Notice that this is essentially a Horn bet, with the 11 unit tossed on the 3 instead).

Without doubling on the 3, E = -12.963%

Any Craps:

Every 2,3 or 12 (four hits in all) pays 7:1 or 28:4
Every 4 through 11 "pays" -1:1 x 32 = -32:32

The total then is 28:4 -32:32 = -4:36 or -11.11%

Effectively, Any Craps pays on the 2 and the 12 as if they were 31:1 pays.

So, Any Craps is "better", in the way that lethal injection is "better" than a firing squad.
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5139
August 18th, 2014 at 11:37:47 PM permalink
I watched someone tonight wait for the point to be rolled each and every time before putting the pass line and adding (up to) 345x odds.

He also did \$52 or \$54 across (excluding) in addition to his put bet after the point was established (with horrible results I might add).

I didn't say anything nor did the dealers.

But when he added a \$10 pass line the dealer reminded him that "\$26 odds is better than \$25 odds" after he put a green chip for odds on the five.

Same guy, after losing all but \$10, made a \$10, \$11, or \$12 crap check to try to chase and get it all back.

All the while he was doing this, he was explaining to his buddy how to play the game.

The game is built on this type of player. And at this casino (it was the Palms) pretending to help the player by saying "even odds is better" and then not telling them how to place the point is pretty much the icing on the cake. Just like telling someone how to improve a 3-way crap check to any craps isn't much help.

His last play was to come back for a third buy-in of a ten dollar bill for which he made a \$10 crap check.

Six rolled.

He cursed the "F word."
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
• Posts: 417
August 22nd, 2014 at 12:53:11 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I watched someone tonight wait for the point to be rolled each and every time before putting the pass line and adding (up to) 345x odds.

He also did \$52 or \$54 across (excluding) in addition to his put bet after the point was established (with horrible results I might add).

I didn't say anything nor did the dealers.

But when he added a \$10 pass line the dealer reminded him that "\$26 odds is better than \$25 odds" after he put a green chip for odds on the five.

Same guy, after losing all but \$10, made a \$10, \$11, or \$12 crap check to try to chase and get it all back.

All the while he was doing this, he was explaining to his buddy how to play the game.

The game is built on this type of player. And at this casino (it was the Palms) pretending to help the player by saying "even odds is better" and then not telling them how to place the point is pretty much the icing on the cake. Just like telling someone how to improve a 3-way crap check to any craps isn't much help.

I agree that any and every bet at center table is for schmucks, and I'm not suggesting in the least that betting Any Craps is in any way a "good" bet just because it's a whole 1+% better than \$1 on each of 2,3, and 12 is. The center table sucks, period. The question I have is whether a well-tipped dealer would give such advice as this one in your anecdote did?