DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 22nd, 2014 at 9:07:11 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Just over a week ago, I was in Tunica, MS. Dealers at the Harrah's there (and maybe some of the other casinos I visited) would not allow Fire bets to be placed at all unless the player had a line bet down at the same time.

Well, if there're gonna do that, I'd bet a doey/don't with $1 on 12. Yeah, it violates Commandment Seven, but it's for a noble purpose, so I think the Wiz would let it slide.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
wudged
wudged
Joined: Aug 7, 2013
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March 23rd, 2014 at 2:28:46 PM permalink
A lot of places in AC frown upon making a fire bet without any line bet as well. It seems to depend on the crew, though. The supposed reason is because they have "shot takers" who come in and hope for a $1000 payout only betting $1 at a time and taking up valuable table space.
mustangsally
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
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March 23rd, 2014 at 2:31:56 PM permalink
Quote: TerribleTom

My basic play at the craps table is to play table minimum with 3/4/3 odds. At a $5 table, I'll lay DP odds of $18 on the 6 & 8, $30 (max odds) on 4/5/9/10
Oh, there's no doubt it's a bad bet on its own.

not that bad.
there must be other systems of play where it dominates.
maybe against a 10 step Marty placing the 4

Quote: TerribleTom

As a hedge vs. a DP wager, though...

On a $5 table:
On the come out roll, bet $5 DP + $3 on the hop-sevens (maybe throw a fourth $1 at the hop 11?).
Point established? Lost $3 (maybe 4), make odds wager (even money bet).
7(11) rolled? Win $15 + original bet for a gain of $7 $6 if you played the eleven, too).
2 or 3 win you $1 or $2(lose hops, win on the DP), 12 pushes on the DP so you'd lose $3-4 on the hops.

I think I'll have to simulate this in Excel, as WinCraps does not seem to support hops bets.

Simulate it in WinCraps. It is so easy.
WinCraps has all the Hop bets. I also see they are all supported in auto-betting too.
Just look below the center bets at the bottom. It says prop bets. click away!
one can even set the payoffs to what ever one wishes. There are many different hop payouts in the world.

How about a quick compare.
Your no frills don't pass 343 system
add the hedge 3way7 and Yo
add only the 3way7

let us see who makes more money over 1 million dice rolls
(or loses less) I stopped at 100,00 rolls for a look. the Don't Pass was winning, but the hedge turned a winner into a big time loser!
yes!
casinos LOVE these players!
don't pass with odds only and UP $4,568! Nice!

the player at the same table - same dice rolls- full 7-11 hedge is down only 8,156

the Classic code used

'set odds to 3,4,3
While . . .
Initializing Auto-Bet
then . . .
Select RNG # 1
Seed RNG with # 123456
Set Auto-Lay Full Odds to True
Bet $ 5 on Don't Pass
Bet $ 1 on Eleven <<< this can be removed to only hedge with a 3way7 bet
Bet $ 1 on Hop 1-6
Bet $ 1 on Hop 2-5
Bet $ 1 on Hop 3-4
While . . .
Next roll is a come-out roll
then . . .
Bet $ 5 on Don't Pass
Bet $ 1 on Eleven <<< this can be removed to only hedge with a 3way7 bet
Bet $ 1 on Hop 1-6
Bet $ 1 on Hop 2-5
Bet $ 1 on Hop 3-4

'just plain old don't pass
While . . .
Initializing Auto-Bet
then . . .
Set Auto-Lay Full Odds to True
Select RNG # 1
Seed RNG with # 123456
Bet $ 5 on Don't Pass
While . . .
Next roll is a come-out roll
then . . .
Bet $ 5 on Don't Pass

no hedge. avg loss per roll?

full 7-11 hedge lost some 7 times more than no-hedge sucker player

only the 3way7 hedge. got to protect that don't pass bet on the come out roll. Money to burn! Nice too!


one can do some math if so interested to see how much per roll these hedges cost on average.

Now,
I am just guessing here and may be way off too
that by hedging bets the player wants (enjoys) to lose more money the longer they play and bet
(because that is the over-whelming average result from hedging)
and it must be more fun while losing more money by hedging

It must be a "feels good" type of betting system
only until (if ever) one realizes that the longer one plays this hedging way the more they lose verses not hedging.
That must be so much fun too.


hedge to "feel good" over a few "saved" losing bets = priceless
not = win more or lose less real money

Sally

OMG!
Wildcats! (UK)
I just won $1 million dollars!
or close enough
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TerribleTom
TerribleTom
Joined: Feb 18, 2014
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March 23rd, 2014 at 2:41:24 PM permalink
Thanks, Sally.

That's a lot of insight.

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