What are my options in this situation
I am to right of stick
my pass line is taken down by someone...i dont know,..maybe stick...maybe the dealer
I quickly replace it
I look away for a second, distracted by waitress asking if i want a drink
I look down,...my replaced bet is taken....(no roll has occured)
I tell the dealer...someone took my pass line bet...i replaced it
He says you are mistaken
can I ask for film to be reviewed?
sometimes the stick takes down the passline from the person next to him....so I am guessing that the dealer came around and took my replaced bet.
Are you sure the dice weren't rolled while you were looking away?
Quote: PBguyIf that happened to me I would insist (politely) that I had replaced the bet and insist that it be replaced. If necessary they can look at the tape.
Are you sure the dice weren't rolled while you were looking away?
absolutrly not.
they had no idea who I was...if I was trying to cheat them. As a new player in their casino...they probably saw that type of scam before.
It was only 2 red chips (10)
since then I noticed many times that the stick takes the passline of the person next to him to help out the dealer...and the dealer has no idea that a bet was replaced and takes it as well
I am not so fast on the replacement like I used to be. I learned a 10 dollar lesson
I played 90 minutes, won a couple hundred,. I usually bet dollars for the dealers on hardways throughout......so this session I didnt. So I didnt lose the 10 in the end.
If you insist they can look at the tape, but most likely they will figure that it's just not worth their time for $10. I would probably insist, just on the principle of the matter, regardless of the bet size.
FWIW, this is why dealers take down bets and do payouts in a specific order. How sloppy were these guys with their procedures? It should be one pass, so no possibility of a mistake.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI have never once seen a casino rule against a player in a situation like that, and I've seen way more questionable stuff, with way bigger bets.
If you insist they can look at the tape, but most likely they will figure that it's just not worth their time for $10. I would probably insist, just on the principle of the matter, regardless of the bet size.
FWIW, this is why dealers take down bets and do payouts in a specific order. How sloppy were these guys with their procedures? It should be one pass, so no possibility of a mistake.
I agree with you..I have seen "make goods" for more money than 10dollars in my 30 years playing craps. But it was my first time there, and I cold tell that they were skeptical, a little hostile, as if they have seen a scam like this before..or heard this complaint before. I figured I had 3 choices...I could pick up my chips and leave in which case I doubt they would care, I could press it and piss them off and be viewed as a trouble maker, and have to worry if they will give me a fair game going foward(you know accidently on purpose forget to pay me for a place bet making me complain again )....or I could keep quiet and smile, and have a civil game going foward and take it out of the tips. I picked the third one.
But as others have mentioned, you only have between 7 and 14 days. In the old days it was 7 days as standard but we no longer work with tapes. There may still be some recorders around but they are not game shots. Those are now almost 100% digital. So the storage could sometimes be longer but I wouldn't take the chance.
If both the stick and base dealers are certain they did noting wrong then it is the floor persons responsibility to either make a call (that should always go in your favor) OR phone Surveillance.
They are not paid enough to make calls that could cost them trouble with the NGC or with their superiors so all of them are constantly instructed to just phone Surveillance.....that is what they are there for!
That might be the source of your problem right there.Quote: LarryS
I quickly replace it.
I'd have looked straight at the box...."have them roll the film". If he doesn't stir, get the Floorman.
Its not the principle, its the five bucks.
Quote: FleaStiffThat might be the source of your problem right there.
I'd have looked straight at the box...."have them roll the film". If he doesn't stir, get the Floorman.
Its not the principle, its the five bucks.
Floor person and box is now one and the same. Times are tough for the casinos what with all the AP's around :)
Quote: PBguyIf that happened to me I would insist (politely) that I had replaced the bet and insist that it be replaced. If necessary they can look at the tape.
Are you sure the dice weren't rolled while you were looking away?
No casino will ever allow anyone to view a tape. If you feel your bet was mistakenly taken down, then they will most likely replace it one time. No harm no foul. people make mistakes.
Quote: CrapsGeniousNo casino will ever allow anyone to view a tape. If you feel your bet was mistakenly taken down, then they will most likely replace it one time. No harm no foul. people make mistakes.
Nobody is saying that Larry should be shown the tape, the incident should merely be reviewed inside of the Surveillance room and a phone call made to the pit to inform them of the outcome.
There are times when a player will be taken into the CSM's office and shown the footage or they will be brought to a special "viewing room" where they can see the footage in question. This is by far the exception though and the casino is not obligated to show the footage to anyone. This will be handed on a "by case" basis and normally the highest ranking employee on the property at the time will make the call.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI have never once seen a casino rule against a player in a situation like that, and I've seen way more questionable stuff, with way bigger bets.
If you insist they can look at the tape, but most likely they will figure that it's just not worth their time for $10. I would probably insist, just on the principle of the matter, regardless of the bet size.
FWIW, this is why dealers take down bets and do payouts in a specific order. How sloppy were these guys with their procedures? It should be one pass, so no possibility of a mistake.
That's how I am too - it's the principle of the thing and if they made an honest mistake they simply correct it by replacing your bet. Not a big deal in the end if it's handled correctly.
The key is speaking up firmly but reasonably. No need to get heated.
Quote: CrapsGeniousNo casino will ever allow anyone to view a tape. If you feel your bet was mistakenly taken down, then they will most likely replace it one time. No harm no foul. people make mistakes.
And no one suggested that the player ask to review the tape personally. That would be silly for a $10 bet. As I said, if "they" (meaning the box person or floor person) don't believe you then they can ask to have the tape reviewed. It's that simple.
It was my mistake not to be more forcefull....But I hesitated because my options to go elsewhere were limited because of the weather. And if I didnt get a resolution after continuing on about it...I would not have stayed.
But I didnt now if I could request viewing the film.(not myself but someone else) for just 10 dollars dispute.
And then when i won the dispute...I had no idea how the dealer/box would take it.
but I didnt know I could still register a complaint days later...good to know. It happened 6 days ago, but I am not gonna get involved. Like I said, I generally spend 10 dollars easy in a 90 min period on dollar bets for the dealers on the hardways. I held those back. So no real net loss on the situation.
Quote: LarrySthanks for the replies... It happened in tahoe where I rarely go. It was icey outside and I wasnt gonna leave over this.
It was my mistake not to be more forcefull....But I hesitated because my options to go elsewhere were limited because of the weather. And if I didnt get a resolution after continuing on about it...I would not have stayed.
But I didnt now if I could request viewing the film.(not myself but someone else) for just 10 dollars dispute.
And then when i won the dispute...I had no idea how the dealer/box would take it.
but I didnt know I could still register a complaint days later...good to know. It happened 6 days ago, but I am not gonna get involved. Like I said, I generally spend 10 dollars easy in a 90 min period on dollar bets for the dealers on the hardways. I held those back. So no real net loss on the situation.
I don't blame you for not wanting to make a stink in that situation. The key is to bring up it up forcefully but politely: "After the 7 out my pass line bet was picked up and then I replaced it and that bet was mistakenly picked up also." I've found they'll give you the benefit of the doubt most of the time. If they refuse ask if they can have the security footage reviewed. I've never had a dealer or box person get upset with me for a polite request whether it turned out I was right or wrong.
It's just good to know you have that option in the future. Personally I would never ask for a review or make a formal complaint at a later time (meaning the next day or later) for such a small bet.
Quote: LarrySthanks for the replies... It happened in tahoe where I rarely go. It was icey outside and I wasnt gonna leave over this.
It was my mistake not to be more forcefull....But I hesitated because my options to go elsewhere were limited because of the weather. And if I didnt get a resolution after continuing on about it...I would not have stayed.
But I didnt now if I could request viewing the film.(not myself but someone else) for just 10 dollars dispute.
And then when i won the dispute...I had no idea how the dealer/box would take it.
but I didnt know I could still register a complaint days later...good to know. It happened 6 days ago, but I am not gonna get involved. Like I said, I generally spend 10 dollars easy in a 90 min period on dollar bets for the dealers on the hardways. I held those back. So no real net loss on the situation.
I have seen them go to the tape for $10 and $5 issues before. Once at a crowded table at the Excalibur, an middle-aged guy was standing next to an older gentleman, and claimed that the older guy picked up his Don't Pass bet. The old guy was adamant that he didn't play that "don't pass crap" or something, and that he would never touch a bet that was there. But they went to the tape and the younger guy was correct. The old guy probably thought it was a payoff on one of his pass line bets or something. Anyway, it took probably 20 minutes for the whole thing to resolve, each of them sticking to their respective stories. It was either a $5 or $10 bet.
So, I think they will go to the tape about anything if you press hard enough, it might just take a while.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI have seen them go to the tape for $10 and $5 issues before. Once at a crowded table at the Excalibur, an middle-aged guy was standing next to an older gentleman. and claimed that the older guy picked up his Don't Pass bet. The old guy was adamant that he didn't play that "don't pass crap" or something, and that he would never touch a bet that was there. But they went to the tape and the younger guy was correct. The old guy probably thought it was a payoff on one of his pass line bets or something. Anyway, it took probably 20 minutes for the whole thing to resolve, each of them sticking to their respective stories. It was either a $5 or $10 bet.
So, I think they will go to the tape about anything if you press hard enough, it might just take a while.
Big difference between a player-player dispute and a player-house dispute. Player-player, you need the right answer. Player-house, the house will often concede the fight if the bet's small enough, just in the interest of not losing HPH over it.
Quote: DeucekiesBig difference between a player-player dispute and a player-house dispute. Player-player, you need the right answer. Player-house, the house will often concede the fight if the bet's small enough, just in the interest of not losing HPH over it.
True, true. If they're smart and take a long-term customer service view, they will just cough it up and give you benefit of the doubt the first time. Especially for a small amount.
