superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 775
December 20th, 2013 at 5:12:27 PM permalink
Alan
Contrary to popular belief the fire bet is a very good bet, if you’re playing it for $5 or more. Sure we should all know that the odds of winning that bet sucks, but strange things do happen every day on the craps tables.

Most craps players make every stupid type of bet there is that will only pay to up to 30 times what you bet. You see this type of betting where the player makes a bet that is a one roll bet, that has very high odds of them ever getting paid off on their bet. When you look at the only thing that affects the fire bet is the seven out that bet with its high pay out doesn’t look that bad after all.

If you’re a casual player which most players are, hitting one six point fire bet a year would put most low level players over the top. The way I look at it is, if I can throw 7’s and 11’s on the come-out roll, the fire bet is will be paid for.
I do know of a couple of player that only bet the fire bet and a pass-line bet if they are forced into making a pass-line bet with their fire bet, and they bet it on every player on the table when they are playing. They never change their way of playing, they are only there to win a fire bet.

Bad bets turn really good when you hit one, as long as you know it’s a bad bet and don’t go overboard with any bet that you make there is no harm in making those bets. I could tell you all stories of how many times I’ve hit a fire bet but it just doesn’t matter. It just like all the times I’ve walked up to a table and the dealers tell me that they just had a fire bet for 6 points hit, but nobody bet it!

The guy that just made the 6 point fire bet then goes on to tell everybody want a terrible bet it is to make, and that he would never bet it!


...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1157
December 21st, 2013 at 8:52:37 AM permalink
Superrick and Alan


If i have my drothers at 21-25% house edge i am not playing the fire bet, i would play the
all tall and small bet.

That bet has only about a 7.99% house advantage, and i think it is great fun. I have hit the fire
bet some, but i just dont enjoy it as much.

The concept indicated before by Alan of playing one game against the house instead
of many has been talked about by some of the better shooters for a long time.

Where it gets muddled up is the idea of making money as compared to the idea
of a big win, and for most people, the thrill of the large win over powers common
sense everytime.

At the end of any roll between 10-20 the vast majority of the players leave more
more on the table than they made. At the end of the night they say well our rolls
were decent, yet we did not make much.

Like card counting, when the count is in your favor bet 10 times normal and in craps
there are times when that applies to a starting position where you have one number
your hitting, or your repeating numbers.

As i have indicated, i am not in the camp of one continued signature number, however in
decent tolls, you will always see one within that roll.

If i was forced to play one way to make money i would play one game against the house
and if i am throwing well i think i can win that one game enough to keep my house, and if
i were a casino, i would be scared to death of good one bet player.

dicesetter
Tomspur
Tomspur
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 2019
December 21st, 2013 at 9:17:08 AM permalink
I'm not a professional dice player nor am I a professional gambler.

If I can't play the Fire Bet (even at 22%) then I don't want to play craps. It is a fun bet and I'm willing to pay for my kicks.

Sometimes it isn't always about +EV plays or limiting your losses it is about enjoying what you do and how you play.

Glad you won Alan, good for you!
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 775
December 21st, 2013 at 4:20:35 PM permalink
Quote:

dicesetter
If i have my drothers at 21-25% house edge i am not playing the fire bet, i would play the
all tall and small bet.



The house advantage doesn't mean a thing you are just getting lucky when you hit one of these fire bets anyway. If you are betting them there are more times that the bet pays for itself when the shooter throws a come-out winner or two. Face the facts that the only time you have an advantage on your pass-line bet is the come out rolls, so why not couple your fire bet with your pass-line bet.

Your not going to see an over abundance of 6 point fire bets, but you will see enough 4 and 5 point ones that will play you very well. I see a lot of the 4, and 5 point fire bets, that are thrown by the random rollers, so I always have a fire bet on everybody on the table.

Yes, I know the math on the bet, but I will only play on tables that have the fire bet or the All Tall Small bets on the tables. I know that the casinos are making money on those two bets or they wouldn't have them on the tables, but if you play enough craps you are bound to get lucky sometimes!

For someone that says they are a DI, the fire bet has got to be the best bet on the table for them, no they are not going to hit it every time they play craps, but they should hit it enough to pay for what they bet on it! If you happen to get on one of those tables where everybody is getting on big rolls, you should have a fire bet out there on everybody that is shooting.


Again I know that it's a bad bet, but I hit it all the time, if you are someone that shoots all the time, and you make over five points on a lot on your rolls, why in the world wouldn’t you bet it?


...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1157
December 22nd, 2013 at 8:49:08 AM permalink
well



I guess i must not be very good, because i have a good many good rolls and
always in them i repeat numbers to much to get enough 5 pointers to say i like it.

For me atleast , when i am on a good roll and try to make changes to get a shot at
the fifth number of the fire bet i hit a seven.

Last night was an example, i had a hell of a roll going, but i was not hitting my pass line
number and everyone was hollering to hit it, so i made a small change to help hit that
number and sure as hell, 7...

Like Clint Eastwood said, a man just has to understand his limitations...


Dicesetter
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
  • Threads: 109
  • Posts: 3740
December 22nd, 2013 at 11:15:59 AM permalink
Superrick made a few things that I would like to comment on:

Quote: superrick


Your not going to see an over abundance of 6 point fire bets, but you will see enough 4 and 5 point ones that will play you very well. I see a lot of the 4, and 5 point fire bets, that are thrown by the random rollers, so I always have a fire bet on everybody on the table.



I also have a firebet on everybody at the table, but I see few 4 and 5 point winners, and only two six point winners. However, just one 5 point winner pays for a lot of fire bet outlays.

Quote: superrick

Yes, I know the math on the bet, but I will only play on tables that have the fire bet or the All Tall Small bets on the tables. I know that the casinos are making money on those two bets or they wouldn't have them on the tables, but if you play enough craps you are bound to get lucky sometimes!



I agree with this, but more importantly the FireBet is your only chance to win a lot of money without betting a lot of money. Craps is a game with small returns on nearly every "good bet." The passline bet, or don't pass bet, are the best bets but they only pay even money. The odds on those bets do pay "true odds" but what's the best payout -- two to one, and that isn't very big at all. The fire bet is like the royal flush in video poker, or lining up three sevens on a slot machine -- it's your chance for a big win with a little outlay.

Quote: superrick

Again I know that it's a bad bet, but I hit it all the time, if you are someone that shoots all the time, and you make over five points on a lot on your rolls, why in the world wouldn’t you bet it?



Well, I wish it were that easy. I have played with DIs who do make five points or more, but they are repeaters. The last time I played craps a shooter made 7 passes, but they were all on three points -- 6, 8, 9 -- so no firebet payoff.
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1157
December 22nd, 2013 at 5:55:27 PM permalink
Alan




I understand the idea of a small bet for large gains....

But i dont rely on luck to win, not that i dont want to, or would
not love to, but i cant .

Sue and I have been on casino trips now for 25 years, and we go
once a week or more. In the past 25 years we have had 5 wins (slots) which
required a 1099 form..... 5.. out of over 1400 trips to a casino
that is it. We have friends that go with us that average 20-30
...... a year.

I have played video poker since 1975 and as you know there are
many books and such which tell us all how to play the game
and play for the royal flush......

well i have never had one

I have done pretty well at craps and live poker because to some extent
i can have an affect on luck. I have won the fire bet a number of times,
but of all the times i have bet on it, i have only won once when some one
else was shooting, every other time i was shooting. So for me to go to
a casino and bet the fire bet on others expecting to win is about as likely as
me growing all my hair back.

it is alot of fun to think about, but in the mean time i will get a hat.



Dicesetter
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 775
December 22nd, 2013 at 8:08:18 PM permalink
Quote:


I guess i must not be very good, because i have a good many good rolls and
always in them i repeat numbers to much to get enough 5 pointers to say i like it.


It's all about confidence, most shooter freak out when they have to change their sets, they are shaking in their boots, no wonder they 7 out! There is no doubt that luck has a lot to do with it, because as you keep making points, it brings in other players that slow down the game with all of their stupid betting.
Quote:

Last night was an example, i had a hell of a roll going, but i was not hitting my pass line
number and everyone was hollering to hit it, so i made a small change to help hit that
number and sure as hell, 7...


Well I've seen you shooting and there is no reason why you can't hit a 6 point fire bet, and if I was you I would always have it bet on everyone of my rolls. The next time your in Vegas I will show you a few tricks that will allow you to hit those numbers you need for that 5th and 6th point.

I think that its very common mistake that a lot of the so-called DI's will make when they are not betting the fire bet. I see that kind of behavior all the time. The guys will tell me that its a ad bet and they won't even put a $1 bet on it. The last 6 point fire bet I hit, that was the case. I invited a local DI to show up where we were playing, when I got the dice I had to badger him into putting a $1 on the fire bet, he was just like everybody else, and told me what he thought about the bet and how bad of a bet it was.

Well 12 points later he couldn't thank me enough, I repeated the 8 two times the 5 two times and the 6 three times and the 10 twice, yes DI's have a bad habit of repeating points. When they had the repeat bet in one of the casinos here in town I loved that bet. Even though I made 12 points on that roll, I will tell everybody that I just got lucky. Nobody bought in on that roll, I had two DI's on the table and there was two other players, that were using good common sense, by not putting their bets where I was landing the dice, they also weren’t making stupid bets.

The dealers won $2000, because the other DI that I play craps with all the time had them up for $1 with my bet up there for them. I always have the dealers up on the fire bet, it sure does change their attitude towards you.

Luck does have a lot to do with any big roll, but if you play all the time you are bound to get lucky a few times a year! It all boils down to some stupid bets pay big time for a very little amount. Most players will pay for the fire bet on their come out rolls, one or two 7's on the come out and your fire bet is paid for, hit only one 6 point fire bet a year and most players will be up for the year! Throw in a few 5 point fire bets and you're way ahead of the game.

Most shooters and players make way more stupid bets when they are playing, by betting the world, or ace deuce or some other prop bets!

It's not everyday that I'm going to have a 55 roll, and make a 6 point fire bet, but when I do, I want it to pay off! I see a lot of the so-called random rollers having those type of rolls, their bound to, they out number the so-called DI's tens of thousands to one. Everybody makes a big deal out of someone they all call a DI when they get on a roll, but you have to remember, nobody is counting the roll that these DI's call random rollers!
Casinos are only looking at the guys that are setting the dice, and it's all because of all the fiction that is written about these so-called DI's. They never look at you when you are losing, then they are only laughing at you! They love to make fun of anybody that sets the dice.

I tell everybody to bet on me just like a random roller, some days I can't do anything wrong, then there are the days that I should have stayed home!

...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1157
December 22nd, 2013 at 9:44:55 PM permalink
Superrick



I am very excited to get out there and work on my game.

When i play on a table here that has the fire bet, i do bet on everyone, i play
1 or 2 on others and the five max on me. It is hit here so seldom, i just
dont think about it .

There are two tables that have it here, one is a 16 footer and 1 a very bouncy
12 footer. The 16 footer i have not played on for 5 months, its seems hard to
win on. the 12 footer i have tried a couple of times lately and if i use a softer low roll
into the center of the hook, i can hold my own, and i did hit a couple of 4 pointers 2 weeks
ago there.

I have been working hard on throwing consistently enough to repeat numbers.

When you play once a week, you dont get enough table time on the casino tables
to work out different sets for different numbers.

Your a much better craps player than i am, so i dont think i will have any problem
betting the fire bet or all, tall & small when you throw. i may even bet a 4 now and
then (laughing).

dicesetter
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 775
December 24th, 2013 at 11:31:36 AM permalink
Quote:

Dicesetter
When you play once a week, you dont get enough table time on the casino tables
to work out different sets for different numbers.


Table time makes all the difference in the world. With enough table time everything become second nature, you don't have to think about what you are doing, you know what you are going to bet before the dice get to the stickman to send them back to you, the same thing goes for what you are going to do with the dice to make a dice set.

You stop worrying about sevening out after all its part of the game and there is nothing you can do about it, you best looking shot can be that seven-out that everybody dreads. If you do seven out it's no big deal. If you are smart, you will be getting the dice right back, because you are playing on an empty table. You didn't bet the farm on you first two shots, and you only make one or two bets that you think you can make with no problem.

So if you do seven out on a very shot roll, you can regroup and know that you didn't kill yourself. Look I know that I can't beat the tables every time I hit them, I don't over bet when I'm shooting, unlike what you may have read by one of our great fiction writers, where they tell their players to make stupid bets like the $204 across, if you have a short roll it's going to take you 6 to 7 hits to get your money back of the table. Casinos love to see players that make across type of bets.

Sure there may be times that you can pull it off and get a few hits before the seven-out comes, but it's those time that you can't that will wipe you out! The way I look at it, is bad things do happen to good shooters, unlike card counting you never know when the seven-out is coming. You count never goes positive, it always stay negative.

Even though the great fiction writers want everybody to believe that there is such a thing as AP craps playing, the truth of the matter is there is no such thing. The dice count is never in your favor, the count is always negative! The sooner a craps player learns that the faster they are into understanding the game and not living in La La land! Your craps schools love to perpetuate the silly BS about AP craps playing so they can sell their schools. Fortunately not all schools are the same there are one of two of them that tell it like it really is!

The red flags should be flying high when you read about AP craps playing! Any type of craps play takes time to learn the skills you need, to win and most of that comes from table time. Understanding the fire bet is the key to winning it when you are betting it, your not going to hit it every time you bet it but you will start to hit it more often.

For someone that thinks of themselves as a DI, they should know what every set does for them and not be afraid to change sets when they are shooting, the one thing the fire bet does for you is to allow you to change those sets on the come-out rolls, after all a seven is only going to put money back into your chip rack when you do throw one, unlike the All Tall Small, where you now have to put money back up because that bet just fell, when you rolled that come-out seven!

True as it is, bad bets abound on the craps table, you have to know that you can hit them if you are betting them. Otherwise your just like everybody else that is throwing their money away playing craps!
Quote: Dicesetter


Your a much better craps player than i am, so i dont think i will have any problem
betting the fire bet or all, tall & small when you throw. i may even bet a 4 now and
then (laughing).


Yes, every book out there says the 4's and 10's are the worst box number bet you can make, but I think that I've proving that they don't know what they are talking, about if you can hit them!

...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...

  • Jump to: