Please explain odds to me..

Warning: complete beginner questions ahead.

I can't find a single resource online that explains craps odds in a basic "this is how many units you'll win" fashion. For instance, I understand that a come bet on 4 pays 2:1, but what does that mean? If I place $1 and win, do I get my original 1 back, plus two more for a total of 3? Or do I get a total of 2, as in my original bet, plus one more?

On that same token, how does the don't come bet work? If I place $1 on the don't come for 4 (odds 1:2) do I win the $1 I bet plus 33 cents? 50 cents? 66 cents? I'm even more lost trying to calculate how odds like 5:6 work.

I thought I'd just play on the Wizard of Odds free craps game and figure it out, but either that thing is out to lunch, or the odds chart is wrong. I placed a $1 don't come bet on 9 (which should have odds of 2:3), yet miraculously, when 7 hit I won back the $1 I bet, plus $1, for a total of $2. WTF? So I try again, I lay a $1 don't come bet on the 6 (odds of 5:6) and whaddyaknow, same thing, 7 hits and I win a total of $2. I thought maybe it just couldn't calculated decimals (which it can), so I tried $100 bets. Same thing, bet $100, win $200. This kept happening. I gave up.

What the hell is going on? Is the craps game wrong? Or do 5:6 and 2:3 somehow both mean that when I bet $1, I double up?

Also, at times I'll place the don't come bet, and I'll lose my bet when some random neutral number rolls, 11 for instance, I've even lost it when a 7 rolled?? Is that game completely jacked?

So if you can't tell, I'm completely lost.

Thanks in advance.

Click the Wizard of Odds link at the bottom of this page. Go to Odds and Rules then craps and read all about it. Easy to understand. The Odds bet is made after the come out roll.

Right here: https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps

I just had a look at the app, and I think I understand what is confusing.

"Come 9" is different from betting on the 9. In the app, when you make a "Come" bet and something other than 2, 3, 7, 11, 12 is rolled, that is the point number for that bet; it is moved to the appropriate "Come box" for that number. If that number is rolled again before a 7, you win, and it pays even money; if a 7 is rolled first, you lose. In other words, Come is the same as Pass, except that the "come-out roll" is the next roll after you place your bet. Don't Come is like Don't Pass, and it also always pays even money. (The dealers move Come bets to the appropriate Come/Don't Come numbers so they know what each bet's point number is.)

You are confusing the come bet with "placing" numbers - you can bet directly on a number, and if it is rolled before a 7, you win the bet and are paid at odds based on what the number is. To "place" a number on the Wizard of Odds/Bovada app, click on the number's just below the dotted line. (Just below the solid line is "Buy", which is like Place, except the odds are "true" odds but you pay a percentage if you win. At the top of each number's box is "Lay" (which is like "Place", but you are betting against the number), and "Buy Lose" (again, like Buy, but you are betting against the number).)

Odds of 2:1 means you get your $1 plus $2 more.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm under the impression that after the come out roll, I can place a bet on the "don't come" bar, and I'm betting that a 7 will come before the point. Is there a difference between the "Don't come Bar" and the "Don't Come" area on each number?

(The Wizard of Odds Craps page, is pretty vague on this fro a beginner.)

I'm confused though. Here's what happens generally happens. I roll the come out roll, say it's 9. I then place $1 on the "Don't come bar" (thinking that I'm betting on 7 to come before 9.)

On the following roll, things happen that I just don't get. Two examples: One time I rolled an 11, and lost the bet I placed on the "don't come bar." Another time, I rolled an 8, at which point the bet I placed moved from the don't come bar to the number 8. After a few rolls the 7 hit, and I won $2. Why $2? Isn't that 1:1?

Thanks for explaining the 2:1 thing. So how about underdog odds? 1:2 odds; I must place 3 to win 1 for a total of 4? Or I must place 2 to win 1 for a total of 3?

Thanks, but he doesn't explain the odds. Just lists them.

Yeah it reads really straight forward, but I can't understand why my "don't come" bet will lose when 11 rolls. I don't get why it will move to the 8, when an 8 rolls. And I don't get why when a 7 comes, I win $1 for my $1. Seems like 1:1 to me, instead of 5:6 :/

Quote: superherobyday

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm under the impression that after the come out roll, I can place a bet on the "don't come" bar, and I'm betting that a 7 will come before the point. Is there a difference between the "Don't come Bar" and the "Don't Come" area on each number?

Nope. The don't come bet is a different bet, not a wager that the last come bet you made will lose to a 7. Though I can understand that literal interpretation.

The don't come bet and don't pass bet are equivalent but for whether the shooter's point has already been established. The bets lose on a first-roll 7 or 11, win on 2 or 3, push on 12, and any other number establishes the point. After a point is established, which you can tell because the bet is moved behind the box number, it wins if a 7 is rolled before the number and loses if the number shows first. The reason the bets move to a number box is because that's how the dealer can tell what the point number was for that bet. The only line bet, either pass or don't, where the bet itself doesn't move is the passline. For those bets, the dealer's puck indicates the point number instead.

Also, there's no such thing as the "don't come bar". What you're reading is "don't come, bar 12" which means that you don't win if a 12 is rolled. You push instead. In northern Nevada, craps games bar the 2 instead.

Quote: superherobyday

Thanks, but he doesn't explain the odds. Just lists them.

Go back to Wizard of Odds and watch the video tutorials on Craps.

Quote: superherobyday

Thanks, but he doesn't explain the odds. Just lists them.

What did you read? This is a pretty good explanation, if you ask me:

Quote: Wizard of Odds—Craps

The Odds is like a side bet in craps made after a point is thrown. It pays if the point is thrown before a seven. The odds on the Odds are exactly fair, which zero house edge. To be specific, the Odds pays 2 to 1 on points of 4 and 10, 3 to 2 on a 5 and 9, and 6 to 5 on a 6 and 8. To make an odds bet after a pass line bet just put the odds bet behind the pass line bet, outside of the pass line area on the side closer to you.

Because the Odds has zero house edge the player can only bet so much on it compared to his Pass bet. Most casinos allow what is known as "3- 4-5X Odds." This means the player may bet up to three times his Pass bet on the odds after a point of a 4 or 10, four times after a 5 or 9, and five times after a 6 or 8. How did they come up with this? I think because if the player always takes the maximum odds, and he wins on the pass line, the Odds bet will always pay 6 times the pass line wager, making the math easier for the dealers.

(I assume it's all right to copy & paste this info since it's from the Wizard's own site)

Quote: MathExtremist

Also, there's no such thing as the "don't come bar". What you're reading is "don't come, bar 12" which means that you don't win if a 12 is rolled. You push instead. In northern Nevada, craps games bar the 2 instead.

Look at the app itself (it's the Bovada "free" Craps app, pointed to from the Wizard of Odds site). The number boxes (4-6, 8-10) are divided into four squares - for example, the 4 box is divided into "Come 4", "Come 4 Odds", "Don't Come 4", and "Don't Come 4 Odds".

When you place a Come bet and a point number is rolled, the bet is moved to that number's Come box (e.g. if you roll a 4, it is moved from "Come" to "Come 4"); you can then bet odds on the "Come 4 Odds" box. Similarly, if you bet Don't Come and, say, a 4 is rolled, the bet is moved to the Don't Come 4 box, and if you want to bet odds on that Don't Come, you place it in the Don't Come 4 box. (Of course, in the casino, you would ask the dealers to put these bets on the layout for you, and they wouldn't have names - this is what is confusing if you are not familiar with the app.)

when your don't come bet went to the 8, you didn't lay any odds. if you wanted to get paid odds (6 to5) you would have had to put 6 dollars down or lay odds, in order to get 5. since you didn't lay any odds, you only got one for the one you bet.

Quote: superherobyday

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm under the impression that after the come out roll, I can place a bet on the "don't come" bar, and I'm betting that a 7 will come before the point. Is there a difference between the "Don't come Bar" and the "Don't Come" area on each number?

Yes. You don't actually bet on the numbers' Come and Don't Come areas - when you make a Come bet and a "point number" is rolled, the bet is moved from the Come area to that number's Come area on that number.

The Wizard's page may be confusing because the "come" and "don't come" areas on the numbers aren't really the player's concern. They just make it easy for the dealers to know which come bets win (and which don't come bets lose) on each number. Otherwise, imagine if someome makes a Come bet, and the roll is 6, then someone else makes one, and the next roll is 8; how would the dealers know which bet wins if a 6 is rolled?

Quote: superherobyday

I'm confused though. Here's what happens generally happens. I roll the come out roll, say it's 9. I then place $1 on the "Don't come bar" (thinking that I'm betting on 7 to come before 9.)

That is correct.

Quote:

On the following roll, things happen that I just don't get. Two examples: One time I rolled an 11, and lost the bet I placed on the "don't come bar."

This is because a "Don't Come" bet is like a "Don't Pass" bet, which loses if the first roll is an 11 (or 7). Had the roll been 2 or 3, you would have won. Had it been a 12, it would have been a push. (Note that Pass and Come lose on a 12, while Don't Pass and Don't Come are a push on 12; this is because if you won on a 12, the chance of winning a Don't Pass/Don't Come bet would be greater than 50%.)

Quote:

Another time, I rolled an 8, at which point the bet I placed moved from the don't come bar to the number 8. After a few rolls the 7 hit, and I won $2. Why $2? Isn't that 1:1?

Yes, it is 1:1, but all Come and Don't Come bets are 1:1, just like Pass and Don't Pass bets.

If you want to make an "odds bet" on your Come bet, you put it on the "Come Odds" (or "Don't Come Odds") part of the number's box. Come Odds pay 2:1 on 4 and 10, 3:2 on 5 and 9, and 6:5 on 6 and 8 (Don't Come Odds pay 1:2, 2:3, and 5:6 respectively). In reality, you would never place a bet directly on the layout except on the Pass Line; you would ask one of the dealers to place the bet for you. (This is because the Pass Line is the only place on the layout where it is obvious which bets belong to which players.)

Quote:

Thanks for explaining the 2:1 thing. So how about underdog odds? 1:2 odds; I must place 3 to win 1 for a total of 4?

No - you bet 2 against the house's 1, so if you win, you get back 3 (your 2 and "their" 1).

Question: are you betting Pass as well as Come? It would be a lot easier to explain what is going on with the Come bets if I was convinced that you knew how Pass and Don't Pass bets worked.

Quote: superherobyday

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm under the impression that after the come out roll, I can place a bet on the "don't come" bar, and I'm betting that a 7 will come before the point. Is there a difference between the "Don't come Bar" and the "Don't Come" area on each number?

I hate to say this so bluntly, but I think you better not play for real money until you learn more.

Please go to https://Easy.Vegas for a simpler explanation and learn to be utterly precise in your terminology so as to avoid confusion.

And please do not confuse odds of something happening with the PAYOUT rate if the event happens.

After a come out roll you can bet either the Come or you can bet the DontCome or do neither.

START with the PASS or DONT PASS LINE.
If a pass line bet is made and a shooter happens to establish a Point the "Hockey Puck" will be moved to indicate what that Point Number is.
If after that, you come along and make a Don't Come Bet you are NOT doing anything in relation to the EXISTING point. Your DontCome Bet will be moved to a certain location depending on what is rolled and THAT STACK OF CHIPS indicates the point for THAT bet, the Hockey Point does not.

Dont Come (Bar 12) is the area where you place your bet,,,, it will then be moved BY THE DEALER to an appropriate location depending upon what number is rolled and where YOU are standing. Its just a way for the DEALER to remember whose bet is whose.

YOu should start at the beginning ... you are VERY confused.

Start with Come OUt Roll.

Differentiate between Come Bets and Place Bets.

Differentiate between an odds bet and the Payout for various bets.

Don't play for cash until you know what you are doing. Dealers on a live game WILL help you but only if they are ABLE to without slowing things down too much.

I'm embarrassed to say my question was even simpler than what he explains there.

That excerpt is just a list of the odds for each possible point. What I was looking for was an actual interpretation of what 2:1 means, as in does 2:1 mean that I win 2 additional units plus the unit that I bet for a total of 3? Or does it just mean that I just double up for a total of 2?

That question was answered for me in an earlier post though. So I'm good.

Thanks, I didn't know there were any. I'll check em out.

Confused is right. Suffice it to say I'll be sticking to the play tables for a while.

Thanks to the folks on this forum (you included), and rereading Wizard's craps page a couple times, most of my questions have been sorted out. What was really throwing me for a loop was not being aware that the come/don't come bets are basically just pass/don't pass bets made after the come out roll. As you said, I had the misunderstanding that they applied to the point.

Thanks for clearin that up. Much to learn has I.

I was actually betting don't pass, and don't come. Or trying anyway lol. Things are startin to come into focus. Sounds like the come/don't come are basically just like pass/don't pass, except they are made after the come out roll, and have no relation to the come out roll point.

And yes that was really throwin me on the Wizard app. Especially since one 'come box' on each number was always "available" while the others weren't. Lead me to more than one false conclusion..

Thank you for takin to time to answer my questions in detail, however silly they are. At first craps just seemed like a rat's nest of bets. Thinks are startin to clear up.

Gotcha. I was unaware that there was not only the come bet, but also come odds, since the odds bet isn't labelled on the felt.

I'm learning. Slowly.

Quote: superherobyday

I'm learning. Slowly.

Something else I think you need to learn - not about craps, but about this forum:

You appear to be replying to specific posts in some cases. Clicking on "Reply" will not display the post to which you are replying, which makes it hard to understand your post. Click on "Quote" to make the post to which you are replying show up in your reply.

Just get on Bovada and play for free. Best way to learn. Try out a bunch of different bets and odds combinations. If you get paid in change you're betting "wrong" amounts. Learn to make bets in the appropriate amounts, or else you get shorted on payouts or chastised by dealers. That was the most intimidating part of the game to me. Also, if you've never played, you'll probably be intimidated no matter how much you study up online.

Good luck, craps is awesome.

OP:
The Odds of all bets on a Craps table (and a few that are not) can be found in appendix 1 of the Wizard's Craps Page .
It goes into some detail as to how they are derived. The Main Page details what these bets are and how they work. The math for each wager varies with wether or not the bet is resolved in one roll (usually wasy math), or in several rolls (more difficult). Perhaps the most difficult bet to analyze is the "Fire Bet".

The OP may be a more knowledgeable craps player than I think he is, but his question is so basic, I wonder what else he doesn't understand about craps. We all start out ignorant about craps. I was (maybe still am). So, it appears to me the OP is ignorant about craps. We all learn in our own way. For me, it was to buy an introductory book to craps. I read this thing before even stepping up to a table. At least I had a general idea of what I was getting into. It helped me decide how/what, etc., to bet beforehand.

I think an introductory book is better than the bits and pieces you get online, or watching at tables, because it's organized and gives you a good overview. IOW, it saves you time. I suggest the OP (and others new to the game) get Richard Orlyn's book, "No-Nonsense Craps: The Consummate Guide to Winning at the Craps Table." It's on Amazon.com at: http://www.amazon.com/No-Nonsense-Craps-Consummate-Guide-Winning/dp/0979106613/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381940443&sr=1-1&keywords=Richard+Orlyn

Since then, I have bought 4 more books on craps & have another on its way. But, of them all, this is the one to read before stepping up to a table. It cuts to the chase, not a bunch of fluff about his craps experiences, etc. It's about $12. Check it out.

98: Unless the OP is into the math of the game like the Wizard and many others are, I do not believe it's worth spending the time for a newbie to read his information. I'm not saying it's worthless. God forbid. But, it's not for everyone. Orlyn's book gives you all the math you really need to know when you step up to a table.

Quote: superherobyday

...come bet on 4 pays 2:1, but what does that mean? If I place $1...

Hopefully here is a very simple introduction to odds. I'm based in the UK, so we have bookies here. Firstly what are "odds", then we'll come back to Craps and other casino games.

Odds

Consider a horse race where there are four runners : Arkle, Best Mate, Crisp and Desert Orchid.

(1) In the first case you could be having lunch with a friend where you thought Arkle was going to win and your friend didn't and both fancied a bet. He may agree to offer you 2/1 (2 to 1 NOT 2 for 1), thus you put down £1 and he puts down £2. When the race finishes one of you picks up the £3.

(2) In the second case we want a bigger bet so consider using a bookmaker; they are only offering 7/4 (or +175 in US terms). So we hand over £100 and receive a ticket. If Arkle wins we get back £100 (our stake) AND £175 = £275. If it loses we get back nothing and have lost £100.

(3) In the third case we want to consider Desert Orchid. His chances of winning are more than 50%. With a friend we may agree to put down £6 and they put down £5 - this is "Odds-On" as we have to put down more than our friend. Again a bookmaker may be offering 4/5 (or -125 in US terms), so we hand over £100. If Desert Orchid wins we get back £100 (our stake) AND £80 = £180. If it loses we get back nothing and have lost £100.

Thus odds against (11/10, 4/1) pays us more than we bet (in US terms +175 says how much we win per 100 bet) and odds on (1/8, 2/7) pays us less than we bet. (in US terms -125 say how much we must bet to win 100).

Craps - Taking The Odds

In Craps there are various bets. Some bets pay Evens and are like Red/Black in Roulette, they pay out the same value as our bet - the base Pass/Come and Don't are examples of this. Most of the others pay different odds depending on their chances.

When you have a Pass/Come bet you can make an additional wager once the Point has been established. In your example the Point is 4 - so the 7 is twice as likely as a 4. So a friend would offer you 2/1 (true odds). Amazingly the casino also allow you to make such a bet, it is called "Taking The Odds", provided you have a Pass/Come bet. In this case you put down $100 and it either pays out $200 if a 4 is thrown or loses on a 7. Note: The Odds part pays 2/1, the Pass/Come part still pays Evens.

If you had a Don't Pass/Don't Come bet then it's the other way round (Odds-On). For a 4 you are more likely to throw the 7, the true odds are 1/2, so you have to put down $200 to win $100. Note: The Odds part pays 1/2, the Don't Pass/Don't Come part still pays Evens.

Similarly for other points the values are 120/100, 150/100 or 100/120 100/150.

Craps - Other Bets

Several of these bets are at specified odds. For instance the odds in the UK for a throw of 2 are 33/1 - this means you put down £1 and either lose or win £33 (and your £1 stays in play). In the US some odds are quoted as 9 FOR 1 - so beware this means something different...

X FOR 1

When someone uses the term "x FOR 1" they mean you make your wager of $1 and you will get back $x. Simple examples include Fruit Machines, Lottery, Bingo and other situations where you pay up front, receive a ticket or a spin, and then may receive something back. So if the payout for Three Bells is 10, the machine chucks out $10 NOT $11 when you win.

Sadly some casinos use this terminology on their layouts (see http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Crapslayout.png ) . For instance there's a bet "Hard 8" which wins on Double 4 and loses on all other 8s or a 7. In the UK the odds are "9.5 to 1" (i.e. £200 pays £1900+your stake=£2100). In the US the odds are "10 FOR 1" (i.e. £200 pays £2000 including your stake=£2000).

Doesn't "10 FOR 1" sound more than "9.5 to 1" - now you know!

Note to wizard - all casino in the UK have to offer the same very reasonable odds at real tables! These are stipulated
(http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/Rules%20of%20core%20casino%20games%20in%20Great%20Britain%20-%20June%202011.pdf ).
I think the main differences are
(a) Place 4 or 10 : 19/10 (aka 9.5/5)
(b) Easy hops : 16/1
(c) Hard hops : 33/1
(d) Craps : 15/2
(e) Hard 8 : 19/2
(f) Hard 6 : 15/2
(g) Odds - usually these are Single Odds, but some casinos now offer Double Odds - I haven't seen larger than that yet.