MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
• Posts: 6775
September 9th, 2013 at 9:35:43 AM permalink
Quote: befamous7

I don't know where I stand on the dice control aspect of craps but I am interested in maintaining consistency with my shot.

Since it has thus far proven impossible to prove the efficacy of dice influencing, I must confess that your question makes no sense.

Just pick em up and roll em: you will be consistently random, as are we all.
"What, me worry?"
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
• Posts: 1157
September 9th, 2013 at 9:40:25 AM permalink
OK

Now that i settled down, the 3v set is an excellent set.

Now there is alot of talk about axis control, and we all understand that if you use a slow motion
camera, it shows that dice go off axis on almost every roll.. i get that... so lets just for a period
accept that when dice end up they are either on the axis you started with or they are not. If you
started with say a hardway set 5/4 5/4 and the dice end up 5/4 they finished on the axis they
started on , no matter how they got there... if you started with a 3/v and ended up 3/6
they finished with the axis you started on.

My experience ( and for the sake of one of the members on here) when i say my experience that means
what i have seen when i play, it does not mean i think i am good enough to tell anyone else how to play....
When i use the hardway set, and i get 3/4 or 4/3 i have to switch to the 3/v or set or i get the 3/4 4/3
all night... and most times i do better, also changing to an outside set accomplishes the same thing.

Assuming an axis finish.... the hardway gives you the 3/4 4/3 5/2 2/5 as possibilities.
the 3 v gives 3/4 4/3 or some outside sets given you only the 5/2 2/5

if a person can not get an axis finish... the 3v set is an awful set for you.

IN terms of the throws above posed by Ahigh , that was a new set i was working with for outside numbers.... i really
dont know what a p value is nor do i much care... what i think is that set does produce a nice outside
bias and i have continued to use it and i like it. In truth i am pretty much scared to know what a p value is , because if
i knew, i might think i was as good as ahigh thinks he is.

dicesetter
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5114
September 9th, 2013 at 9:41:19 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Since it has thus far proven impossible to prove the efficacy of dice influencing, I must confess that your question makes no sense.

Just pick em up and roll em: you will be consistently random, as are we all.

It makes perfect sense to me. He is asking what is popular.
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
• Posts: 8294
September 9th, 2013 at 10:14:29 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

If you can keep the dice on axis, and all you care about is minimizing 7s, the best sets are those with different axial numbers on each die. It doesn't matter which: if 1 and 6 are on the side of one die, 2 and 5 or 3 and 4 should be on the sides of the other.

This thinking is new to me. I can't comprehend it.

In the example of 1,6 on axis paired with 2,5 on axis, and apparently no other conditions, then someone with influence would have less 1s,6s,2s, and 5s. That's all kinds of combinations. If 1,6 is on axis with both dice, though, without other consideration there are less 1s and 6s period. Less combinations totalling 7, 2, and 12 only.

Quote: MathExtremist

It doesn't matter which

It seems to matter to me.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
• Posts: 5072
September 9th, 2013 at 10:36:53 AM permalink
Dicesitter,

I think somebody has p-value envy. ;)
Fighting BS one post at a time!
Dicenor33
Joined: Aug 28, 2013
• Posts: 624
September 9th, 2013 at 10:43:40 AM permalink
Befamous , hard way sets might help you to avoid 7 . Most shooters now days use parallel 3 . Yes , you will avoid 7 longer than average player . Do any of these people got any richer ? I don't think so . Ask yourself a simple question , if I have an edge than I must play table max , can I do that ? If you answered "yes" than bet \$5000 across . If you loose , take Ahigh to court for false advertisement . You are at a mercy of luck like everybody else , that's why "controlled shooters" never bet big .
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
September 9th, 2013 at 10:46:07 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

This thinking is new to me. I can't comprehend it.

In the example of 1,6 on axis paired with 2,5 on axis, and apparently no other conditions, then someone with influence would have less 1s,6s,2s, and 5s. That's all kinds of combinations. If 1,6 is on axis with both dice, though, without other consideration there are less 1s and 6s period. Less combinations totalling 7, 2, and 12 only.

Don't look at what's not on the dice, look at what is. Using the set where 1 and 6 are on the axis, and if you can control the dice so they always show one of the remaining 4 sides, you have 2,3,4,5 on each die. There are 4 ways to roll a 7 (2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2) out of 16 possibilities, so p(7) = 25%. On the other hand, if you have different numbers on the axis, then you have different numbers on each face. Suppose you put 1/6 and 2/5 on the axis (the "flying V" set). You have 2,3,4,5 on one die, 1,3,4,6 on the other. Now there are only two ways to roll a 7 (3/4 and 4/3) out of 16, so p(7) = 12.5%.

Like I said, *if* you can control the dice and *if* all you care about is minimizing 7s, this is how to do it.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5114
September 9th, 2013 at 10:56:30 AM permalink
Quote: Dicenor33

Befamous , hard way sets might help you to avoid 7 . Most shooters now days use parallel 3 . Yes , you will avoid 7 longer than average player . Do any of these people got any richer ? I don't think so . Ask yourself a simple question , if I have an edge than I must play table max , can I do that ? If you answered "yes" than bet \$5000 across . If you loose , take Ahigh to court for false advertisement . You are at a mercy of luck like everybody else , that's why "controlled shooters" never bet big .

Wow so many lies in so few sentences. It should be known that I removed this person and all of their posts from my forum for lack of general content quality.

"If you loose..."

That alone should tell you something about the quality of content from this individual.
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
• Posts: 8294
September 9th, 2013 at 11:14:44 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

You have 2,3,4,5 on one die, 1,3,4,6 on the other. Now there are only two ways to roll a 7 (3/4 and 4/3) out of 16, so p(7) = 12.5%.

Well! I would never have arrived at this on my own. Thanks.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
• Posts: 8294
September 9th, 2013 at 11:17:46 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Wow so many lies

A person can be assertive and uninformed at the same time, yet have no intentional mendacity.

Certainly in the post there is no concept of the Kelly Criterion, a torpedo for his main argument.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder