Crapless craps revisited

On the subject of crapless craps as it relates to "good deals," I think there's merit in revisiting this! I have seen crapless tables pay out huge amounts, and it's made me wonder more about how good of a deal crapless craps can be.

Here in Vegas, there are three crapless craps tables. The old standby at the Stratosphere. Then there's a newer one at the Plaza that is open after 8pm on Thursday and Friday and all day on Saturday and Sunday. Las Vegas Club also operates a crapless craps table with similar hours to the Plaza (same ownership).

To get started, consult the appendix on edges per roll. It's the edge per roll that has to be considered to be fair to crapless, not the edge per bet. Because the number of rolls for a passline in crapless is more than in craps.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/2

But what is the average number of rolls for a passline bet in crapless craps?

Well, it turns out to be 4.16147, which is more rolls than regular craps at 3.38 rolls per passline bet.

The house edge for the passline in crapless is higher than the house edge for the passline in craps.

But the number of rolls is longer.

So while the house edge for the passline at 5.382% is 3.82 times as high as 1.41%, the edge per roll at (5.382%/3.82) or 1.2934% is only 3.092 times as high as (1.41%/3.38) or 0.417%.

In other words the game only costs about 3x as much on the pass line per roll but almost 4x as much per bet.

When factoring in that you get more free odds bets in crapless than you do in regular craps, crapless is not such a bad deal as some might believe. Especially considering the high payouts for free odds on the less likely outcomes of the pair of dice.

IE: crapless with 10x odds can actually help a player exploit extreme good luck by rolling a couple of boxcars or aces with max odds!



One way to model crapless craps would be a 10x odds $5 crapless table is like a $15 minimum bet craps table that only allows 3.33x odds. It's actually a little bit BETTER than that though, because you have more opportunities for free bets in crapless than you do in craps as fewer of the rolls are comeout rolls in crapless due to the fact that all the horn numbers are points. Working your odds on the comeout makes this even better, but if you want a chance to get lucky, always work those odds and enjoy a higher number of free odds bets active per roll in crapless compared to craps!

Odds work by default on only 70% of craps rolls, compared to 76% of crapless rolls.

The average number of odds bets active is also higher in crapless craps.

Both of these facts also help reduce the combined house edge when employing odds to get a better overall edge on the game.

In summary, if you dismiss crapless craps as a bad deal with a house edge more like roulette than craps, you may have fallen victim to a less than complete coverage of how easy it can be to get lucky if you play the game properly utilizing lots of big odds bets and a little bit of RANDOM LUCK!!!!

Don't be afraid to bet $50 odds on a $5 bet that travels to the 2 or 12!! One hit, and you've got some serious ammo!

Personally I like it... There was one at one the local casinos out here, but they got rid of it pretty quickly. The table was "dumping" alot of money... But if I'm at a casino that has one, I'll definitely play it

Another point that is more well known is that buying the 2, 3, 11, and 12 with vig on the win are the absolute best non-free bets on any dice table anywhere in the country. But let's keep the discussion to comparing the per-roll edge of crapless in the TYPICAL way that it is played to a $15 regular craps table to be fair.

I just played a $15 at Mandalay Bay this evening, and with $15 on the line and a few various bets, I had less money available for free bets compared to a $5 table with 10x odds. I wasn't just squirming from having such a higher edge as I normally would be on a crapless table, but that's why I'm trying to put the game into a normalized perspective as I think it's gotten too much bad press for the 5%+ house edge that most people equate to double-zero roulette.

IE: I think it's just got a bum rap overall. I could see crapless craps being even more popular with 20x odds and $3 minimums for example. If more places offered crapless at $3 with 20x, I could imagine it operating 24/7 at a higher volume casino -- for example the Casino Royale would make sense.

I think it's important to give the game a fair shake, and I also found it interesting that the edge per roll for crapless ... well I couldn't find it published anywhere. Maybe other people already knew the edge per roll, but I can tell you none of the dealers knew!!!

Memorize it -- 1.293387% edge per roll -- (assuming I'm right) because crapless craps pass line with no odds is still twice as good as a field bet (per roll!) And most people think a field bet is twice as good as double zero roulette! So crapless is possibly four times better than you thought if you were thinking it was just like throwing your money away on double zero roulette. It's not that bad, so build up a bankroll and go for it! Just be sure you have the bank and stamina for some big odds bets!!

There's no mention of "middle table bets" with your post or the below WoO link, so if they are not available it could be the players and the house both miss those bets too much and there won't be too many installations.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/#craplesscraps

Middle table bets are all the same as regular craps.

The other thing that might make crapless more entertaining would be a fire bet. Making an 11-point fire bet could end up being quite the payday! Even 3-point fire bets on crapless is much less likely than the same 3-point fire bet on a regular craps table.

The link you provided above demonstrates that I think far too many people simply write off crapless craps considering the edge and the edge alone .. and edge per bet instead of edge per roll even at that.

Once free bets get added in to the mix, and assuming you have a low limit table, there's really nothing wrong with the game given that you have a sufficient bankroll IMO.

I also modelled the modified edge (IE: edges given non-uniformly distributed face outcomes).

It seems that the edge for unusual face weights shifts less in crapless than it does in craps. The natural wins and losses affect the edge in craps much more as the result of those thing occurring compared to crapless.

I'm going to do some crapless simulations as well just to see what theoretically biased rolls look like in terms of potential for profit. But I wouldn't be surprised if the extreme variance can be leveraged by someone with a good shot.

I think Bob Stupak was a craps enthusiast, and the game may still have some life in it.

It wasn't long ago that we had 1/3rd the number of crapless tables here in Vegas compared to the number we have now. And with Vig on the win still going strong, who knows what the future holds for this game if the players warm up to it.

One thing that the dealers will tell you about this game, though: you can both win and lose very very quickly with enough odds bets.