2 tales of the same event - ruined by Biased dice

Quote: superrick

Funny that you found your way on the board, to write your first post about Frank today! Was it that damn little bird that told you to make your post today. Its amazing how that damn bird get around when someone is picking on Frank S!

Do I have to say BS, or should I just ask how do you become a sock puppet, just curious?

My, my, my - such anger superrick - and perhaps a touch of paranoia? "Welcome to the Wizardofvegas board, diceroller!"
Yes, I did just register on this board yesterday. I happen to have a lot of respect for Michael Shakleford so I thought I would take a peek at this board and see what was here. I also registered and made my first post on two other boards yesterday. In each case I took some time to browse the posts and find something I could contribute to.
I have played blackjack, craps and video poker for years. I play almost exclusively in Tunica or Las Vegas. Your post about not believing some numbers that Mr. Scoblete posted caught my eye. Since I believe I had been at the table during one of the events you mentioned in that post I thought I would comment on it. I have seen Mr. Scoblete at the tables on several occasions in Tunica and Las Vegas over the past several years and even had the opportunity to talk to him. He seems sincere in his desire to help improve the lot of the casino gambler. I have also read many of his books and all of them are filled with no nonsense good advice.
What I can't understand, superrick, is why you cannot believe anyone could throw the numbers mentioned. I have seen random rollers repeat a number 9 times in a row. What about Pat Demauro who threw 154 numbers before sevening out? Do you say that is also BS? According to an article I read the odds against that are 1.56 trillion to 1. Why is it so hard for you to believe someone threw 23 sixes in less than 30 rolls?
By the way, superrick, the posts I made on the other boards had nothing to do with Mr. Scoblete. Your post on this board just happened to catch my eye. So settle down. I am not some crackpot sockpuppet. I just want to contribute where I can and have the common decency to treat other board members with a modicum of respect.

Given some of the names and terms in this post, I think its about dice control.

One thing is certain: It don't involve no one walking away from a casino with armloads of money and a Casino Manager being in tears.

So if no one made oodles and oodles of money, don't try to tell me that it works. Because "works" means you make a zillion from it.

Quote: FleaStiff

One thing is certain: It don't involve no one walking away from a casino with armloads of money and a Casino Manager being in tears. So if no one made oodles and oodles of money, don't try to tell me that it works. Because "works" means you make a zillion from it.

Perhaps "it" works because it gives some a slight edge to win a little more than they lose.

Tupp, thank you for a reasonable answer.

Quote: FleaStiff

Given some of the names and terms in this post, I think its about dice control.

One thing is certain: It don't involve no one walking away from a casino with armloads of money and a Casino Manager being in tears.

So if no one made oodles and oodles of money, don't try to tell me that it works. Because "works" means you make a zillion from it.

FleaStiff, I propose that your above post is a violation of Wizard Rules 2.0 # 7, has zero to do with the topic and 110% to do with the intent and spirit of Rule #7:

Quote: Wizard

7. No hijacking: Try to keep threads on topic. If you want to veer off on a tangent, please make a new thread for it.

Alan


We keep going back to the thought that a DI says i had 8's in a row or Stickman had 26 6's out of 32 rolls and on
and on. Then we make the assumption that because a DI reports that, therefore they are saying see we can do this
anytime we want, or that this is 100% repeatable at will.... i have never seen that writter anywhere

You noted that you saw a random guy throw a bunch of 8's in a row... great, how many times will he do that????

I contend that most of the time if you watched a good shooter you would not think he was any good if he was a
DI because you are expecting super natural results.

Last night i had 6 hands
5/6/9/2/5/8/7
5/5/8/2/8/4/10
6/6/6/6/12/8/8/9/7
5/7
8/8/5/10/11/6/8/11/7
9/6/9/8/4/6/12/7

Now if i was watching some guy go to the table and set the dice and throw and thats all he had i would
think why bother, he is no Di .....and being honest you and most of the guys on here would say the same thing.

yet to a guy that bets only the 6 & 8...... there were 17 of them in 42 rolls, that is over 37% where the norm would
27.8 %.

To me that is influence, it has nothing to do with 15 8's in a row, or 26 6's. it is what it is.

In addition Superick indicated that there was no heat at tables before we had a so called DI industry, that may
well be true, having said that, it could also be true that the reason some pit boss here and there takes issue
with dice sitting is not all the hype, but the fact that they watched some shooter and said, hey that guy is
pretty good, maybe we should not allow that or atleast make him uncomfortable.

I personally think it is silly, the best thing that ever happened to a casino craps table was setting the dice. Far
more dice setters are going to lose more thinking that have control than actually do have some control.

You guys live there, you see this day in and day out, i just visit. BUt for me i have never been bothered by a pit
boss for setting the dice... i have a number of times been bothered when my throw looked pretty ncie that
night... but that is just my experience....

dicesetter

delete.......

Quote: dicesetter

In addition Superick indicated that there was no heat at tables before we had a so called DI industry, that may
well be true, having said that, it could also be true that the reason some pit boss here and there takes issue
with dice sitting is not all the hype, but the fact that they watched some shooter and said, hey that guy is
pretty good, maybe we should not allow that or atleast make him uncomfortable.

What we have is a small cottage industry that need hype to sell something that we can't prove can be done reliable. After they coined the now famous words "Dice Controller and Dice Influencer" they needed more things to sell their products, so they came up with the famous SRR, in case any of you don't know what that stands for, I'll spell it out for you "Sevens To Roll Ratio"!

You had the DI's most famous fiction writer, writing that he had a SRR of 28, now with that said anybody that plays craps all the time knew that couldn't be. I have to give Irishsetter and myself credit for also saying BS, when nobody else would say that. I think that this fiction writer would still be getting away with that BS if the two of us didn't keep writing that there was no way anybody would have an SRR of 28.

If any writer is writing fiction and is caught doing so how in the world would you believe anything they write?

Unlike most guys, I'm caught in the middle of trying to expose when someone is writing fiction and all the guys that call me a DI that I know!
They ask why I take my time to expose all the fiction that is written, and my answer is always the same, I'm tired of getting heat and seeing it applied to guys that are just setting the dice and getting lucky, because they don't really know what they are doing, they have seen someone else get on a good roll that was setting the dice and they are trying to do the same thing.

Even most of the guys that take a class will never get to the point of being a DI, they just don't put the time that is needed to become one. Sure they will have some lucky rolls, that everybody thinks are special, only because they are setting the dice. The truth of the matter is their dice are all over the place. One time they land 1 ft away from the back wall the next time they are hitting the back wall, then they are 3 ft away from the back wall. Now every time them make a shot there dice will hit the back wall and if they start to get lucky, you will have a dealer of boxman or suit telling them to hit the back wall.

The hilarious part is, that if a guy took a class, all the shots are based on hitting the back wall that they are taught. So really what the dealers are doing is to reinforce what they were taught to do, damn it guys hit the back wall with your dice so you can make points, don't miss it!

This small cottage industry has done such a good job of getting all the hype out there, that they caused all the harassment that anybody now gets that sets the dice if they are on a roll. That has even carried over to the random rollers now days, if anybody is on a roll most casinos are now trying to get the shooter to seven out. Most players will never even recognize when they are being harassed, their not looking at being short stick,. as a way to get you to seven out or the dealer making a mistake in a pay out to start an argument, so the game stops! There are so many thing that the dealers and boxmen will do to stop a roll it's not funny anymore.
Nobody wants to be confrontational, when they read something that their minds says no way Jose! They won't question the writer, but they want a fair game when they are playing craps, so do I. I give the casinos a shot at my money and when I'm doing it I don't do anything that is illegal. I tell it like it is, I don't win all the time, but I do know when it's time to walk out of the casino a loser, if I'm not having a good day. That also goes for other guys that know how to play the game, that are not shooters. They walk away when they are losing, so they can come back a play another day!

Quote: dicesitter

I personally think it is silly, the best thing that ever happened to a casino craps table was setting the dice. Far more dice setters are going to lose more thinking that have control than actually do have some control.

This is so true, the guys that think they can beat the game ends up losing way more then the casual player. They go on the Internet, to DI forums and learn stupid bets like the $204 across, that a fiction writer promotes, they too think they can win hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, because they are taking advice from someone that nobody has even seen playing in a real casino.

Then you have the guys that own the DI boards that know for a fact that what some of these guys are writing is fiction, but they need to sell their product and they never say hey that couldn't happen, nobody has an SRR of 28! They rather let their members read fiction about fictional comp trips to Macau China, or to an up state NY casino by helicopter, to give their readers hope of someday doing the same thing. They should be ashamed of themselves and start pushing good betting and shooting skills to win at craps, instead of just BS, that will fill the pages of their forums.

We would all be a lot better off, the casinos would think that everybody that sets the dice are going to take a cool haft million off them on a $2000 buy-in! That one of the fiction writers wrote about, in a round about way,.. that was very vague, until you did the math.
I'm not against the schools, some of them do a fine job of teaching the game of craps and they are worth the money if a guy is going to play craps enough to get something out of the class he or she took. There are a very few guys that have a better then average chance of winning at craps, but I don't care what your stupid SRR is when those sevens come in clumps it just doesn't matter the best shooters I know,.. are going to lose!

Rick you lost me some where....

You suggest your caught in the middle.... of what.... you placed yourself there......

What baffles the snarf out of me is you and others are complaining about the thing you
are involved with and have been for a long time.

NO matter where you gamble, no matter which game you play, no matter how much money you
have or dont have,,,, the process is all built on the illusion of winning, and to build that illusion
you have to have some people win.... so they create games that are built to allow
a few to win , some times alot and the vast majority to lose........ each of you that complains
here about whether dice control works or does not work are complicit in the gambling industry.
You see others win and maybe have won yourself and so you play, hoping to win more or just
win, all time knowing the odds are against you.

People that teach dice control are no different, when i took the Classes i was told now 90%
of the people that takes these classes or any other class wont put in the time to be good
enough to win, or control their gambling habits well enough to be an advantage player..

That is truthful, their is no illusion of 50 rolls every night or money falling out of your pockets.

The only ones that have any right to complain about dice classes or a dice book or a dice
video are the ones that paid the money....

I have paid real good money for the classes i took, i had to earn it, and i dont want my money
back, i happy with what i got in exchange for it.

Last night i played at an tribal casino, i got the dice 6 times, 3 were losers, 1 was even one was a
smaller winner and a real nice 21 with almost half 6 & 8 was a real nice winner. I left ahead, and one
guy at the end of the tub that i have seen there, but i dont know, told the kid next to him, watch this
guy he is good.

Now for all you guys that are going to delete this, or challenge this or whatever..... which one of you
can say for sure whether my 38% 6 & 8's was luck or did i really have some influence last night??
Which one of you have not had a good outing and had some one say you did well, and not have a
real good feeling....

LIke i said, it was my money and my time and i dont want either back.... and the next time a pit boss
says hey you cant throw like that.. .it is really a compliment.

So you guys want proof... well here is a question for you, prove to me i have no influence, prove to me
all of the good rolls and number of 6 & 8's thrown is just luck,
that none of the guys taking a dice control class this year is never going to be any good, never going
to put in the time, that all the classes all the efforts are a complete waste of time.

But being in line with your requests... i dont just want comments or nonsense... i want 100% proof
that i have wasted all my time and money, and that every student that will take a class this year or
next is wasting theirs.... then when you are done with that, particularly a couple guys on here
that say they play alot or try to infleuce the dice, then explain why you play the game.

Dicesitter

@dicesitter


I dont believe anyone can tell you that you have wasted your time or money... They are both yours to do as you please...

But I will ask a few questions... Prior to taking the class what was your longest roll?... And afterwards as well?
After taking the class, have obtained a significant amount of winning sessions (i.e winning 2-3 times as many sessions as before)? Or do you lose at about the same rate?
Has the Class made you a life time winner?

Other than the first question, If any of those questions have a NO, then it would be proof that the class has not changed anything.
And Until a DI holds the record for the longest throw, I believe DI has zero ground to stand on... You see Frank S. understood this, thus the story of the Captain's roll. A player with influence should be the most dominant player in the record books and on the table. When you look at Michael Jordan, his stats match his stories. Kobe Bryant as well.

As you pointed out about your 6 rolls... 3 were losers... I believe that math probability still holds against your "thoughts" of influence.

TheWolf713

See these are fair questions.... but they are meaningless...

First i have played craps for 40 years.... nothing i can do or will ever do will make me a life long
winner at craps or any other casino game. that horse has left the stable.

Second what Franks says about the captain has nothing to do with me or you or any other
craps player. If the captain was real as i feel , he is no longer alive so i wont see him
i wont play with him . If he did not exist some one some where influenced Frank and the
GTC throw... that is fact one way or another.

Third the fact that a random player has the longest roll has nothing to do with anything....period.
Long rolls are and have been and always will be a lot of luck..... the reason for that is easy,,,, the better
you get at axis control, the more vulnerable you are to 4/3/ or 3/4.... that is a long roll is not what
dice control or influence is all about.... i shoot for 6 & 8 period...

Now more to my experience....40 years is a long time, so my memory is not perfect..... and i dont think i
played nearly as much years ago as say Alan or Rick may have. But i can remember 1 hour roll i had
and i ams ure there were other shorter good rolls. BUt since i started DI stuff 3-4 years ago i have had more than
40 -40 or better rolls and 6 rolls of 50 or better. Now you need to judge if that is good or bad...

I consistantly throw more than 30% 6 & 8 which is an advantage over the house..

Now the idea that a DI would have more loses than wins is also meaningless.... you can have a roll that is
almost perfect and be a 4/3 3/4... you can do that many times because no one is perfect. no could or says
they can set for the hardways and get a resulting hardways all the time.. i dont care if i have more losing hands
thans wins as long as at the end of the night i am ahead.

Now for Jordon and Bryant....... they were good, look at the number of games they won on the last shot... but then
look at the numbers of games they took the last shot and missed, do you dismiss them because they have actually
missed more last shots than made.... ??? no you look at the wins....

What is boils down for you is the same thing it boils down for everyone else..... you cant get it through your head that
a person can influence the dice without being able to do it every time we touch the dice.... you want us to sit up
and bark when ever you want us to...sorry no DI, no craps instructor, no book, no video, no anything every said
that was possible.

I have many times placed results of my practice session online to show the influence with on axis and 6 & 8, what
more do you want.

You should take a class or two, find out for yourself, then when you fail you can get on line and say see it was all a
fake... there have been hundreds have taken the classes...... where are those people????

Surely when something is fake, a complete waste of time and money there should be hundreds of people on
here asking for their money back.

Dicesetter

I have a question for Superrick that transcends the debate.

What set do you use?

Superrick, who is the "fiction writer" that you keep writing about? I know it can't be me since I never said I had an SRR of 1:28 (I don't think I ever said what my SRR was) and I have never been to Macau (I won't play out of the country).

To anybody else, I can't possibly be the "fiction writer" but I really have no idea who is being referred to. If he is referring to me, his source is off once again.

Can you enlighten me? Maybe others need to be enlightened too.

Even if Dicesitter were to say he is now winning more than he ever did and he is now ahead since taking the class that is meaningless to a critic of dice control for the following reasons:

1. too short a range of results
2. luck is the factor in his wins
3. too high a percentage of losses

I really wish there more were dice controllers and dice influencers in the world. I spent Father's Day weekend at Caesars with my son and all I can say is thank Heaven I got a royal on video poker, because I needed it after the miserable time on craps. Two days of play and not one shooter made more than three passes. Never before in my life did I see so many players lose so much money... and not one Don't Player there the entire time at any of the tables I was at.

5-Count

Quote: FrankScoblete

Superrick, who is the "fiction writer" that you keep writing about?

A rather loquacious poster on the dice setting message boards who goes by "The Mad Professor."

Quote: FrankScoblete

5-Count

Actually Frank the "reverse 5-count" would have been better. Have money on the table for each player's first five rolls and then turn the bets off.

Thanks for the Reply @dicesitter

You are correct when you say that "I cant get it through my head that a person can't influence the dice every time they touch the dice".

Well, I also cannot understand why is it ONLY When a DI has a DECENT ROLL, it will be considered as "INFLUENCE" and when you Point seven out it is "NOT INFLUENCED". Because you throw 6s and 8s on a roll, it was "influenced", and if you throw 5,10,9,4,6,10, 7out, its not influenced....Where's the Logic?

What is the criteria that defines these triggers for you?

Also, How can we possibly rule out that having more losses than wins Is meaningless??? Sure, you might believe Winning is not the everything, But I believe ITS THE ONLY THING.... Why would we rule out the one thing that can Prove it works? Its very simple, if you can influence the dice, your wins should be more than your losses, thats simple. Even if we don't count your entire 40 years, lets just talk about the time frame after the class....

Honestly, when I ask this I am not referring to a dollar amount.... Do you have more winning sessions than Losing sessions after taking the class? HONESTLY (Strictly sessions, because money varies).

Next, you might feel what Frank says might not have "anything" to do with you, but if you have caught the heat that I have, you will find it has A LOT TO do with you and I as Shooters... I used to look at all the little Table raises and putting up the reserve signs (to limit the other players that can play) as a badge of honor. But now i look at it for what it really is... When you are considered "too good" the game you love goes bye-bye. I skate on thin Ice these days, and had to reduce my play because of this. And its all because There was a guy who wrote on the subject and really spook the hell out of these people. (By the way, I like what some of them wrote and have the upmost respect for them.)

Oh and when a person speaks about Practice, I'll let Allen Iverson speak on the subject

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM

(just joking with that LOL... but i digress)

You also say that if it was fake "people would ask for their money back"... This is not entirely true... It could just be a situation of a person that has played 30-40+ years (as you stated) and has decided to have patience with this system. The first brain washing mechanism in the teaching of DI it is that "Becoming a better shooter TAKES TIME"

The entire time you are learning, you are rationalizing with yourself that if you "seven out" you did something off-axis, and if you do well, it was "on axis and because of the class"... When it merely falls under one umbrella, it was nothing more than random.

Well here is the thing, and i am not sure it worth my time to write this, or your time to read it.

But here goes.......First you assume that all the people that take the class are stupid, some how under
Franks spell of the illusion of dice control. Now i have met a good number of them, i hardly think any of
them are stupid. I am trusted by a number of the largest financial institutions in the country , as well as the
FDIC, FHA, VA to go after corruption in lending and by more than a few law firms to handle most of their
real estate related litigation research, i hardly think i am stupid.

The classes they teach are designed to show you a GTC throw.... period. end of story.... they indicate
that it takes signficant amounts of practice and then after that 90% wont make it in terms of being an
advantage gambler... that is reality no illusion anywhere.... just like most things in life, you get out if
it what you put into it.

Here is thing that seems to escape most of the detractors of dice control or influence..... it is a rather
simple statement...... you cant get good if you dont practice.... constantly.... and you cant just practice
you have to do it correctly... this stuff is not easy.

Now here the other part of this that i doubt you will accept, it is however 100% true......and it goes directly
to wins and loses, and your question about which hand is controlled and which is not. My answer is simple
they are all controlled, some well and some poorly. Sometimes your throw is not very good, your release
bad, your opening your hand, you dont feel the dice leave your fingers., sometimes you need to vary your set.

I always start with the hard way set. The reason i do that is because if my control is off i have a better chance
of having a decent roll because if one die is on axis and one is off i cant make a seven...... in addition if my
axis control is real good i will have some hardways and 5/3 3/5 and i am happy, and i will ride that set. If on
the other hand like the other night i had shorter rolls which both ended in 4/3 3/4, i have axis control, but off
a little, that tells me to switch to the 3v set... which a good set for 6 & 8 if you are on axis.

So the first two losing hands showed me what i was doing, hand 3 was a tie, hand four was a nice roll of
maybe 12-13 with almost half 6 & 8's and roll 6 was a very nice roll which started out with 4 8's in a row
and ended up about half 6 & 8's. I switched to the 3v for the third roll.

Now to you it appears i was not controlling anything and got lucky, or i cherry picked the rolls i want to show you as
being influenced, to me it is a process i go through everytime i hit the table.

To me it is all about the end result, with the 3v set i can hold my own with well over the expected 27.8% of 6 & 8
that a random guy would have, but i cant use the 3v set if i am not on axis....

Now some nights you simply cant make the set adjustments... or throw adjustments. it is 3/4 4/3 5/2 or 2/5 with the hard way set...
and the 3v set will also give you a 3/4 or 4/3 if the dice land with one die perfect and the other only a two face
rotation. either way, these are still rolls with influence, it is just working against you that night.

Look at your dice, and see how close to perfect you can be on every roll with the hardway set, and still get a 7.
Then watch a good
Di and you will see very few 6/1 or 1/6, that is the effect of dice influence.

Now to your last question, and it is a very good question, all your questions are good and well thought out. If we
get a 1/6 were think well i must have been off axis, it was a poor throw....see that is true and true.... we got the
7 because we were off axis. For me i get a 1/6 6/1 when i pull the dice to right on my swing, and when they hit the table
with the left edge of the die lower than the right edge and they kick right. So instead of rolling to the back wall and on
axis, they are rolling sideways and off axis.

Here is the thing and there is no way of getting around this...... if you play 1 or 2 times a week, if you keep decent
records of your practice and if you are consistanly well over 30% in terms of 6 & 8 and over 50% in terms of on axis
something is causing that.... i have my answer, you need to determine if it is the craps god playing games
or if it is the result of the GTC roll learned in class.

If you think as a group, we are to dumb to figure it out.. then you explain it.

Dicesetter

By no means would I ever attack and say That DIs are dumb... I understand that we are all from different walks of life, and as Mr.V would say I am strictly "talking bout dem Bones" . I do apologize if I came off like that.

Back to the Dice

You said that you cannot be good if you don't practice... How do you explain a ring amateur throwing 154 rolls... no practice tables at home. No 3V set, no SL1 position... Just chucking the dice.

You say all are rolls are Controlled, some good and some poorly. That explanation in my mind is that you are saying you can have a Controlled "uncontrolled" variable... In short, it still ends up being OUT OF YOUR CONTROL.

Also, and this just my humble opinion, To keep records of rolls in an attempt to predict the future outcome of the dice means that you believe in a "SYSTEM". A system of shooting... I believe SYSTEMS have no place on a table.

I would agree that It is possible to get into a good rhythm of throwing, but I disagree that you are controlling the outcome.

But keep up you good work and I enjoy your posts.

-TheWolf713

Quote: Cowboy

I have a question for Superrick that transcends the debate.

What set do you use?

That all depends on what table I'm playing on, I use many different shots on the different table I play on, but if your like most guys that think of a DI as shooting a Par type shot or a GTC shot, I use sets for the outside numbers. I don't want to make 6's and 8's the ROI is not there.
Everybody that know me will bet on the 4's and 10's and watch what I'm betting on, then bet the same way!

With those two type shots I would be using the 2V set, most of the time! If that set isn't working I will change the set to what ever I feel I need to work with! What anybody is trying to do first and up-most is to avoid the sevens, so if the set you are using is producing sevens its time to change the set to what ever will work! If I'm using say the 2V set and its not producing the 4's and 10's but I'm not getting any sevens, I will take what the table is giving me and move my bets according.

Quote: Frank S

Superrick, who is the "fiction writer" that you keep writing about? I know it can't be me since I never said I had an SRR of 1:28 (I don't think I ever said what my SRR was) and I have never been to Macau (I won't play out of the country).

Frank, I try to avoid this question, but since you asked and some readers may think that you may have been the guy that wrote about his BS trip to Macau or any other fantasy story that he comes up with, he is “The Madprofessor” That nobody has ever seen playing in a casino. He has never shown up to any of the met up's , like what they call the Spring Fling, over on the Dice Institute where he writes most of his great fiction, I can't say enough about his writing skills, this guy makes you look sick Frank, to bad its all fiction!

You can also find him writing his great fiction over on Heavy's board, I guess that they need fill in,.. to fill up their pages on that board also!

Quote: Frank S

Even if Dicesitter were to say he is now winning more than he ever did and he is now ahead since taking the class that is meaningless to a critic of dice control for the following reasons:

No Frank, that is not true, if it wasn't for players like Dicesitter, where would you be?
I never said there were not what everybody calls DI's after all they call me one. I don't cut down even what I would call a bad school. I think it's a good idea for someone to take a class if that school teaches good betting skills to go along with their shooting.

Frank if what you use to teach worked so good, why in the world would you tell the whole world about it, you could have been doing what the great fiction writer BS about. That trip to Macau could have been yours.
Craps is one of the games that all the writers say you have your best chance at winning at in a casino, but you can't get away from the fact that it is a negative game, and when someone is writing fiction about it, that doesn't help anybody, although it may sell books.

The next time any of you followers of the great fiction writer, is in Canada around Fallsview Casino, why don't you PM the great fiction writer and see if you can met him at the craps tables. I know you could see Frank, or Heavy or the Guys at Little Joe's school in the casinos. Hell I've even met up with some of the guys on this board, that I liked their writing, that weren't even DI''s all they did was to PM me.

Now for the bottom line Frank I still say BS about the rolls you said the “Stickman” and you had! You might have sold some more books because of BS like that, but at what cost to the other guys that play craps all the time? Please don't ask me to Email “Stickman” about those rolls, I would be wasting my time!

Have it your way i am not dumb enough to try to convince you any longer, i am the one that
throws 6 & 8, your the one that cant figure out why..

Dicesetter

Quote: AlanMendelson

I really wish there more were dice controllers and dice influencers in the world. I spent Father's Day weekend at Caesars with my son and all I can say is thank Heaven I got a royal on video poker, because I needed it after the miserable time on craps. Two days of play and not one shooter made more than three passes. Never before in my life did I see so many players lose so much money... and not one Don't Player there the entire time at any of the tables I was at.

AlanMendelson, don't you have a good contact at Caesar's. Why don't you ask him to balance the dice for you. Even after seeing the results on the Caesar's tables again and again, you still don't believe what has been reported on http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/p/cheating-casinos.html

Quote: Biased Dice Team

Caesars - Both light Biased and Heavy Biased nearly 24/7, especially on weekends when High Rollers are invited in with big promotional giveaways (last updated 2/2011)

5/2 & 6/1 Seven Out biases?

That sounds sexy. If I'm ever in Vegas, I'll go there and play the Dont's with Max Odds, DC's, Lay Bets, sounds like a great time. It's a wonder these guys aren't rich, yet, but I'm not waiting for the gravy train to leave the station!

What's that, they only slip in the biased dice when someone plays the Right Way? Oh, that sucks. Oh, wait, I got it! Just wait for someone to play the right way betting black at one of these places, and play the wrong way and bet green, they'll still want to use these biased dice!

At least those places don't resort to witchcraft. At one of the places I play Craps, they have the Dark Mage, Xanadu, hiding in the back altering the dice telekinetically. There's not a DI alive who can overcome friggin' witchcraft. I proved that something was up, though. I was trying to recoup and bet $200, rolled a Six and took full-odds, the next roll was a Seven-Out, Seven pips on one face and Zero on the other. I said, "That's it, I'm done playing here."

Quote: Bohemian

Even after seeing the results on the Caesar's tables again and again, you still don't believe what has been reported on http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/p/cheating-casinos.html

What exactly is that assertion based on?

Nothing, now, looks like they got rid of the page...in the last few hours.

EDIT: Or not, just click, "Casinos Exposed."

I can already tell you what it is based on, though, a bunch of people who experienced negative Variance at one or more of these casinos that noted certain Seven-Outs coming up more than others. Maybe they returned and the negative Variance was met with a little Confirmation Bias.

Or, you could just call it bullshit, either way.