Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
Joined: May 5, 2010
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April 4th, 2012 at 8:47:53 AM permalink
Quote: PopCan

Now maybe you can see the shady, yet beautiful, move the Oklahoma casinos are pulling. They're having the pool pay the ante for some or all of the players. In other words, they're taking $0.50 per hand from the pool they're supposed to redistribute back to players and giving it to themselves. The beauty is that since they're saving the player from having to pay that $0.50/hand they're technically distributing the money back to players in the form of the fee. The problem with what they're doing is that win is usually recorded by shift or at least by day. Since they're constantly draining the rack of money their win drops substantially and therefore the 10% the state gets is also significantly reduced. Brilliant.



Thanks for clarifying... I mostly understood how it worked, but you provided a bit more that I didn't quite get. It will also help gamblers appalled by the Ante understand WHY they have to do it that way.

To be fair, the Ante is usually collected in separate chips (if I remember correctly). For example, the player $.50 chips may be pink, but the Ante chips are yellow. That gets collected up to about $25, where another $25 Ante chips gets dropped into the drop box. By using those different chips, they may be able to clarify what money is in the player pool vs. money that's being taken out for "promotional purposes." Again, I haven't been to OK for years, but I remember at Downstream (where I played for about 4 hours) that they had different colored Ante chips. I collect those, and wanted one, but the dealer said she couldn't sell those.

Back to the OP's original question. Knowing that the competition still S17, I don't find the rules are all that competitive. Yes, Early Surrender is very nice, as is RSA. I'm just not sure I would go out of my way to play there for those rules.

Btw, there are TONS of casinos in Oklahoma, so I'm sure the State is getting its share... not justifying finding a way of getting around it, but with as many casinos as there are, the larger ones that pay the ante get more people, making the "player pool" bigger, and thus getting taxed more.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 4th, 2012 at 9:00:44 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
PopCan
PopCan
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
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April 4th, 2012 at 9:05:16 AM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

To be fair, the Ante is usually collected in separate chips (if I remember correctly).

I was thinking they might be doing something like that since paying from the pool seems so insane, but I'm not convinced that they aren't paying for it out of the pool. I hope StickyRicky can clarify.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Back to the OP's original question. Knowing that the competition still S17, I don't find the rules are all that competitive. Yes, Early Surrender is very nice, as is RSA. I'm just not sure I would go out of my way to play there for those rules.

I'll admit I could be missing something but that 8 deck game is off the top positive for the player with ES. I'd love to play there, betting $20 or more of course.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Btw, there are TONS of casinos in Oklahoma, so I'm sure the State is getting its share... not justifying finding a way of getting around it, but with as many casinos as there are, the larger ones that pay the ante get more people, making the "player pool" bigger, and thus getting taxed more.

Yes, I'm sure the state gets a decent amount. In addition, many of these players will also play the slots where the state gets a better cut.
PopCan
PopCan
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April 4th, 2012 at 9:14:46 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I will never, ever, again play in ANY indian casino unless it is regulated by the state and I encourage others to follow suit.

All tribes are self regulated to an extent. The tribe creates its own gaming commission. However, the National Indian Gaming Commission has a set of MICS (minimum internal control standards) that the tribes must follow. The NIGC MICS meet or exceed the Nevada Control Board's MICS in most areas. Then the tribes add their own policies in addition to the MICS. Because of that I don't have any problems playing in a tribal casino. The only concern I'd ever have is that some lawsuits can only be brought against the tribe in tribal courts.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 4th, 2012 at 9:50:51 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
PopCan
PopCan
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
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April 4th, 2012 at 10:01:20 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Being self regulated is like me telling you to come to my house and play my crooked game and in top of that, if you win legally, I will steal from you and call you a cheater. Will never happen in a state regulated commercial casino but HAS in indian casinos.

It won't happen in a state regulated casino? Allow me to present Exhibit CAA: James Grosjean at Caesars. He was backroomed and thrown in jail over a non-cheating AP play. If a casino, tribal or otherwise, were to try to steal from a player they have recourse through the state. Most tribal casinos deal with a lot of locals so it's in their best interest to not appear in the newspapers over dumb things like this.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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April 4th, 2012 at 10:12:03 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Being self regulated is like me telling you to come to my house and play my crooked game and in top of that, if you win legally, I will steal from you and call you a cheater. Will never happen in a state regulated commercial casino but HAS in indian casinos.



I would argue that the definition of the word "legally" matters a lot in your statement. Commercial casinos have absolutely treated card counters in the way you describe, but counting is legal...

Didn't one of the Detroit casinos also severely mistreat some of their video poker players?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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April 4th, 2012 at 10:26:48 AM permalink
deleted, off topic
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
PopCan
PopCan
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
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April 4th, 2012 at 10:28:45 AM permalink
They mistreated them but it was just a standard trespass-style barring. You can read article about it here.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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April 4th, 2012 at 12:09:42 PM permalink
Quote: PopCan

I'll admit I could be missing something but that 8 deck game is off the top positive for the player with ES. I'd love to play there, betting $20 or more of course.


OP has yet to clarify whether this is early surrender against tens AND aces. I suspect it is only against tens, but who knows.

Even with early surrender against both, I think the game still has a slight edge for the house, since it's 8 decks and H17. This link which you provided shows a 0.06% house edge off the top, not player edge.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer

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