3:2 Blackjack is dead. Long live 3:2 blackjack!
As for the future of blackjack, I don't see 11:10 ever coming along. I think enough of a stink was made about 6:5 for it to ever happen. Rather, the casinos are going to start charging commissions on the game, or some other bastardization of the rules. I see ten deck continuous shuffle with no doubling or splitting allowed coming down the pike.
3:2 is dead. Long live 3:2!
Even in Hard Rock Florida there are two pits. The low limit 6;5 pit which is clearly marked and the 3:2 pit which is clearly marked and is no mid shoe entry. Yes, the 6:5 pit is popular. So are the party pits that feature variously clad girls in the other Seminole casinos. Players seem to realize they are paying for the "scenery".
Quote: NicksGamingStuffAll the games at Fitz are 3:2
The last time I was there you were working a 6-5 table, which I refused to play.
Quote: WizardThe last time I was there you were working a 6-5 table, which I refused to play.
So Nick was paying 3:2 on a 6:5 table?
Quote: NicksGamingStuffThey also took out their good Spanish 21 game.
:'( I guess it's better that I found out like this instead of going there and trying to find it. RIP.
Quote: INkyatariAs a low roller, It's hard for me in the Chicago area. Either I have to stroll on over to the Indiana casinos, or play some of the worst games in Illinois. And sadly, 6:5 is permeating every casino in the Illinois side of the Chicago market, and not on single deck games either, (I havent found any in the Chicago market,) but on 6 and 8 deck games at $5 and $10 minimums. I've also been reading report after report coming out of Vegas and AC where 6:5 is being forced on the patrons. Let's face it, casino greed has doomed 3:2 to the dustbin of history. Unfortunately I don't think there's anything we can do. As the Hollywood Casino in Joliet mentioned on their Facebook page where I called their 6:5 a ripoff " Our $5 blackjack tables are a big hit with our guests." As long as the ploppies play it, it's going to be the next permeation of blackjack.
I used to play in the Chicago area a lot; it's sad to hear 6:5 is becoming a norm on the Illinois side. It doesn't surprise me; table minimums are too high for general public, and "Reservation BJ" at Hollywood Aurora never really took off except during the busiest of hours. The casinos can't offer lower minimums at lower house edges since the taxes are too high. At least $5 players don't have to drive all the way to Indiana now...
Saddest part is the Chicago area had some of the best BJ games in the country... Harrah's Joliet used to offer 6-deck, S17, RSA Allowed, no Surrender with good penetration. The dealers were efficient and the hotel was nice. Alas, as the economy drops, they have to figure out a way to get their money.
Quote: midwestgbInteresting. Here in K.C., a fifth full line casino (on the KS side, finally) just opened up. It is a Hollywood/Penn National property co-owned with the state. Anyway, they are offering 3/2 games with $10 mins. It is the standard here. You can even still find $5 games here on weekdays at 3/2. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, though...
I'm sure the Hollywood looks just like all the other new Hollywoods.... but how is the casino? I used to live in KC, and I would think that property will do well. How's Argosy holding up too?
Quote: Tiltpoul
I'm sure the Hollywood looks just like all the other new Hollywoods.... but how is the casino? I used to live in KC, and I would think that property will do well. How's Argosy holding up too?
The new casino is nice, gorgeous in fact. I have found their VP to be excellent by K.C. standards. The dealers currently are pretty raw, though they did bring in reasonably experienced supervisory staff from the surrounding competition. Argosy is its sister establishment and they have created a joint player club card for these two properties.
Argosy is holding up fine. They recarpeted in the past six months... And it remains in very good hands. I am a fan of the place; the dealers there are extraordinarily friendly and professional IMO. Just don't hope to conquer their slots... ;-)
I don't understand the title of this thread. Usually the phrase "X is dead; long live X!" has two parts...the first part about how X is dwindling, less significant, etc.; and the second part where X is resurgent for some reason.Quote: INkyatari3:2 is dead. Long live 3:2!
Your post doesn't have the second part, which I agree is sad :(
Quote: INkyatariAs a low roller, It's hard for me in the Chicago area. Either I have to stroll on over to the Indiana casinos, or play some of the worst games in Illinois. And sadly, 6:5 is permeating every casino in the Illinois side of the Chicago market, and not on single deck games either, (I havent found any in the Chicago market,) but on 6 and 8 deck games at $5 and $10 minimums. I've also been reading report after report coming out of Vegas and AC where 6:5 is being forced on the patrons. Let's face it, casino greed has doomed 3:2 to the dustbin of history. Unfortunately I don't think there's anything we can do. As the Hollywood Casino in Joliet mentioned on their Facebook page where I called their 6:5 a ripoff " Our $5 blackjack tables are a big hit with our guests." As long as the ploppies play it, it's going to be the next permeation of blackjack.
As for the future of blackjack, I don't see 11:10 ever coming along. I think enough of a stink was made about 6:5 for it to ever happen. Rather, the casinos are going to start charging commissions on the game, or some other bastardization of the rules. I see ten deck continuous shuffle with no doubling or splitting allowed coming down the pike.
3:2 is dead. Long live 3:2!
Although it varies somewhat depending on the other rules, 6:5 increases the house advantage by roughly 5x on a typical blackjack game. People don't realize how big of a difference it makes - a $10 bet on 6:5 will net the same profit to the casino that a $50 bet on 3:2 does. If you are a basic strategy player and 3:2 is available at, for example, $25 minimums, your theoretical loss will be considerably less playing $25 at 3:2 than it would be playing $10 at 6:5 (although admittedly you will have higher variance). If you are a counter looking for an edge, then 6:5 isn't even an option, and you just need to save a bigger bankroll to head to the higher limit games that have 3:2.
6:5 isn't really blackjack. It raises the house advantage to the point where it falls into the category of carnival game. There truly is no point in playing it.
Quote: thefish20106:5 isn't really blackjack. It raises the house advantage to the point where it falls into the category of carnival game. There truly is no point in playing it.
While I agree that 6:5 isn't really blackjack, it raises the house edge to somewhere around 1.5%. With counting, you could theoretically bring this edge down to 1%, but then what's the point? However, most carnival games have a HE of AT LEAST 2.5% if not more, so to call it a carnival game is still a bit of a misnomer. While I don't like the trend at all, eventually it's what all casinos will be offering, and 3:2 will be as rare as the better Pairs Plus table on 3-card. If people stop playing 6:5 BJ (which is the only way to eliminate the trend) the casinos will just minimize the number of BJ tables. It's already happening in the Midwest. Ameristar CB eliminated about 6 tables, and didn't add any new BJ tables.
It's just regular Blackjack, but the players' blackjacks pays 2:1 when the dealer has a bust card of 6 or less up, and even money when its 7 or higher. It averages close to 3:2, but the dealer's up card value tends to follow the true count, so BJ payouts are reduced ("re-deuced?") when the count is high, and increased when the count is negative.
Love the concept.....
Quote: TiltpoulWhile I don't like the trend at all, eventually it's what all casinos will be offering, and 3:2 will be as rare as the better Pairs Plus table on 3-card.
Extinct? Not very reassuring.
I think 3:2 will wind up at high limit rooms, along with single-zero ruolette.
Quote: NareedExtinct? Not very reassuring.
I should rephrase that... it will be more and more difficult to find casinos offering 3:2 BJ, but I don't think it will become extinct. There are certain gaming jurisdictions that will never allow 6:5 BJ, but I've got to think that they'll find ways of getting around it. I also think while there will always be a market for the game, it will take up less and less floorspace, since casinos know they can put in a poker-based game with higher payouts and a higher hold.
3:2 Bj will get relegated to the Shufflemaster machines, some of which are also paying out 6:5 these days...
Quote: thefish2010If you are a counter looking for an edge, then 6:5 isn't even an option, and you just need to save a bigger bankroll to head to the higher limit games that have 3:2.
In part due to this, most all amateur counters are heavily underbankrolled. Kelly Criterion dictates that you should bet a fraction of your bankroll approximately proportional to your advantage. In a typical game, the maximum momentary advantage you can expect to encounter is 2%, and typically you operate between 0.5% and 1%.
That should be your bet, 0.5% to 2% of the bankroll. And that's not the base bet - that's the high bet. If you're spreading 1-20(max), the base bet is $25, operating bets are $100 up to $500, and your bankroll has to be $25,000. That's bankroll for this game, which you can afford to lose, reload and play again. You can expect to bust it about once a month; of course you're expected to make two over the same period.
Counting would have to see a significant resurgence for savings from such a move to be worth even the cost of replacing the felts, much less the loss of business.Quote: PaigowdanI would not be surprised if "2-thru-6" or "Double win" blackjack gets a look from someone.
Quote: TiltpoulI should rephrase that... it will be more and more difficult to find casinos offering 3:2 BJ, but I don't think it will become extinct.
I thought the good paytable for Pair+ was extinct, ergo my comment.
I don't play BJ, so 3:2 or 6:5 seemingly doesn't affect me. I say seemingly, because it marks a generalized trend in the industry. Good VP is harder to find, as is the aforementioned Pair+ table, triple for 2 and 12 on the field (or even 2 or 12), and so on. Next thing you know there will be triple zero roulette, Straight+ side bet, 2X odds as standard in the Strip...
I can't do much about BJ. I already boycott the 6:5 game, but my intensive boycott of soccer has achieved similar results <w> I can do something about VP, Pair+ and Craps, though, which is to play the better games whenever possible.
But let me tell you something. Last trip i played 3CP without side bets (mostly), and I was always the lone sensible gambler not playing the sucker bets. Always.
Quote: IbeatyouracesOne casino I go to had six 6:5 games and now only have two of them. In another those tables are hardly ever open.
The key worsd are hardly ever open. If the casino drew more BJ players, those table would be open. It's all about what the market will bear,
Quote: NicksGamingStuffNo they changed it a couple weeks ago, now everything is 3:2. They also took out their good Spanish 21 game, Blackjack Switch, and Power Blackjack. Now they only have shoe or pitch.
Just as a point of curiousity, are the tables 5, 6 or 7 places. ?And average number of player hands dealt per hour?
At the Isle in Blackhawk the dealers averaged 450-650 hands per hour depending on the game, pitch, shoe, multi-action etc. At the time Colorada was max $5
bet. Blackhawk dealers were always 20-30 % hands dealt higher than the other Isle properties at similar games. It must have been much easier with $5 max bets as the dealers sure as hell were not that good. Pip placement was terrible and paying with dirty money was the standard, not the exception.
Anybody got figures on spaces at table and guesstimates on hands per hour at full table, especially pitch ??
I doubt people listened.
