Spanish 21: @#$%#%*!!!!

Warning: Venting of frustration ahead.

Why the hell do I even bother trying to play Spanish 21? After 3 attempts at 3 separate casinos, I've given up. It's simply not fun. Why, you may ask? Well...

1. People only get angry with you

Try printing out the Wizard's strategy chart, following it, and see what happens. At some places, most people at least seem to understand that always hitting a 12, or not doubling a 3-card 11 against a face, are good plays. But hit a 14 against a 3, or against a 4 when it's a 6+8...it's almost comical how angry some players get. And don't even mention 17 vs. Ace. At Delaware Park, one lady even accused me of working for the casino to make her lose. (I vehemently denied it, then shared an exaggerated wink with the dealer and pit boss and said, "drinks on me tonight, fellas.")

2. That damned Match the Dealer bet

The only good thing about this bet, as far as I can tell, is that it slows the game down when everyone else is playing it, meaning I lose more slowly (see number 3). Otherwise, at every place, the pattern is the same: don't make the bet, hand is dealt, some old lady on the table (and in some cases, the dealer as well) crowing about how "you would've made $60!" when I get a perfect match. Never mind the 20 hands previous where I would have lost. And again, some people get ANGRY about this, too. What the hell do they care what I do with my money?

3. I've lost my effing shirt

I trust what the Wizard says. I don't think he's being paid by the casinos to write that the game has an HE close to, or better than, blackjack when played optimally. But I just haven't seen it. No, I don't expect to win in the long run, but at least in blackjack most of the time a decent buy-in will last a while, and I have a decent chance of being up in a session.

All my Spanish 21 sessions have been down, down, down. Well OK, I did break even that one time at the Borgata. But otherwise, it's the same story. The bonuses for certain 21's should make up for the removal of 10's...somehow I never hit any of them. Hit a 12 against a 6...get a face every time. That seems to happen to the dealer a whole lot less often, doesn't it?

Screw this, I'm sticking to games that I don't need to always consult a piece of paper to play. If you're just gambling for fun, not as an AP, it should be a fun atmosphere...and Spanish 21 simply is not an enjoyable experience, for the reasons above.

Rant over.

C'mon, Dwarf. Tell us how you really feel....

I have enough trouble playing "real blackjack" with all the 10s still in the deck.

Ive had plenty of luck playing the wizards strat
one night when I lost on pretty much everything else I went up to a pontoon table and pretty much won all my money back :D

Hitting hard 17 against an ace and getting a 4, only to see the rest of the table lose to 21
then having the lecture of "its a team game" and people trying to advise me on how to play, or inform me that im throwing my money away
its very frustrating at times :D

edit: in 7 years ive only seen 1 person other then myself play correct strategy

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

Warning: Venting of frustration ahead.
1. People only get angry with you

This is why I will only play Spanish by myself or with one other person. I will also explain to that person that I'm using a strategy card for Spanish 21, and if they are curious about rules, they can ask me. If the table fills up, I'm GONE!

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

2. That damned Match the Dealer bet

Yet another reason I prefer to play alone. If the dealer is giving me a hard time about not playing it, I will play all tips on the bet. Occasionally it hits for them, and I'm happy for them. But most of the time, they end up losing.

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

3. I've lost my effing shirt

I trust what the Wizard says. I don't think he's being paid by the casinos to write that the game has an HE close to, or better than, blackjack when played optimally. But I just haven't seen it. No, I don't expect to win in the long run, but at least in blackjack most of the time a decent buy-in will last a while, and I have a decent chance of being up in a session.

All my Spanish 21 sessions have been down, down, down. Well OK, I did break even that one time at the Borgata. But otherwise, it's the same story. The bonuses for certain 21's should make up for the removal of 10's...somehow I never hit any of them. Hit a 12 against a 6...get a face every time. That seems to happen to the dealer a whole lot less often, doesn't it?

Yeah, my past few sessions have been like that. However, on Spanish, I seem to find a pocket of good runs that I can capitalize on. This is usually when the deck is low in tens, which I'm not sure I understand, but I guess that means you hit more, thus making more 21s. I like Spanish 21 overall though, and besides Pai Gow Tiles and Ultimate Texas Hold Em, it's the only game that I have to think while playing, and outside of craps and tiles, the only game that still excites me.

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

People only get angry with you.

Imagine how I feel. My ten years in Baltimore I played Spanish 21 a lot in Atlantic City, to the dismay the entire table.

deleted

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

at least in blackjack most of the time a decent buy-in will last a while...All my Spanish 21 sessions have been down, down, down.

You can't fight variance. Look at the MIT BJ team.They won a ton
of money and then negative variance kicked in and they lost for
months. They couldn't win a session to save their lives, they lost
almost all the money they'd won. You got in at a bad time, when
the variance is in a slump. If you stick with it, the swing will come
your way. But its pointless, you can't stay ahead, so why bother.

(I'm talking about the first team, the team after
them did quite well.)

Is counting the strategy or something? The 0.40% HE that the Wizard shows as the best HE you can expect will kill you in long sessions if the casino uses a CSM, IMO. So I say you are probably not getting too much variance in this game, but not enough!

edit: in the WoO game comparison page (go about half way down the page), I see Sp. 21 looks better in his "element of risk" evaluation than BJ. I wonder why that is?

Quote: odiousgambit

I see Sp. 21 looks better in his "element of risk" evaluation than BJ. I wonder why that is?

Most likely because a player 21 always wins and a player BJ always gets paid at 3:2, regardless of the dealer outcome. In regular BJ, you have to figure a small percentage of the time those hands will push. Adjust your strategy on Spanish, and theoretically the player makes more drawing hands pat hands, of which, roughly a fifth of those would be drawn to 21, which automatically wins.

Quote: odiousgambit

Is counting the strategy or something? The 0.40% HE that the Wizard shows as the best HE you can expect will kill you in long sessions if the casino uses a CSM, IMO. So I say you are probably not getting too much variance in this game, but not enough!

I've yet to see a Spanish 21 table with a CSM, actually. Either ASMs or just hand-shuffled. But I agree with your larger point, and this actually might be an argument in favor of the Match bet--it does, indeed, increase variance, even as it increases the house edge. Without it, the game becomes a grind.

Stick with it. At some casinos, I play Spanish 21 exclusively, because it is the best game in the house. (I'm thinking of one casino in particular in Ontario...) At some houses where it is well established, people know the rules and will not get mad at you for hitting on 12 or 13. This is true at a couple places in Indiana, Ontario and some AC stores. I've seen a couple people get mad when I hit the 6-8 14 against a 6, so I try not to play third base ever. Sometimes people will ask you if they can play on your match bet, and I always let them. No downside for me, and they sometimes even tip. I agree it is annoying when people point out your non-existent wins.

It is a great game and I've had a lot of success at it. By success, I mean I am about at expectation. (Still waiting for that super bonus). By the way, last session I was hitting the three-card 21 bonuses left and right and looking like a genius. They will come.

Quote: OneAngryDwarf

I've yet to see a Spanish 21 table with a CSM, actually. Either ASMs or just hand-shuffled. But I agree with your larger point, and this actually might be an argument in favor of the Match bet--it does, indeed, increase variance, even as it increases the house edge. Without it, the game becomes a grind.

Ameristar in Council Bluffs now uses a CSM on the Spanish table. This allows them to run it continuously, only changing the cards in the wee morning hours. I believe it's open 24/7.

Funny story from a dealer: He came into his shift at 6pm, and noticed when he got on Spanish that all the 10s were still left in the decks. Imagine the fun of THAT few hours.

Yes in some cases SP 21 is the best bet in the casino w/ a low min. bet. If it is double double down, around a .42 HE w/o almost double that.

Back home this game has taken over !! These tables are always packed and they have 3 X more tables than BJ. I agree, the sidebets slow the game down to a snails pace. Everyone plays them and the casino must make a killing !!!

W/ that said, I do enjoy the game as there seem to be more plays and is a nice change from BJ, where my play is robotic . There have been a few occassions on the S21 where I actually had to think !! I enjoy the Surrender, double on any amount of cards, and double down Surrender.

I follow the WOO S21 for DDD w/o fail, and seem to do ok . I printed it out and laminated, so I can review whenever I need to.

Sometimes I will just sit at a table and relax w/ the slower pace, knowing I will be losing less.

Also at a casino I frequent, the S21 has higher limits 5-300, while the BJ has 5-100 limits. On many occassion I have turned a losing BJ session into a winner by heading to the S21 table and hitting a few big bets, of course it has gone the other way as well !!!:l

The strategy is not that hard to remember, more hitting and more doubling, w/ surrender.