Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
• Posts: 3565
September 11th, 2011 at 5:21:43 PM permalink
Ok you math geniuses... If I'm playing a Blackjack game where they pay 10-1 for pushing with the Dealer I believe the stats look something like this:

Dealer and player push 8% of the time.
For every 100 \$1 side bets the house wins \$92
For every 100 \$1 side bets the house pays out \$80
The house wins \$12 for every \$100 bets.

How would this change if the player could place a bet after seeing his/her first two cards and the Dealer's up card? My mind can't even comprehend the possibilities. I guess with a player 17 and a Dealer showing a 7, chances would be pretty good? With any other combination other than the player and Dealer's starting total ending in the same number between 7 and 0 is it even possible to figure out?

Going even further, what if the player could place the bet after they are done playing their hand (if not a bust hand)?

My brain hurts.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
7outlineaway
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
• Posts: 282
September 11th, 2011 at 5:43:09 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

How would this change if the player could place a bet after seeing his/her first two cards and the Dealer's up card? My mind can't even comprehend the possibilities. I guess with a player 17 and a Dealer showing a 7, chances would be pretty good? With any other combination other than the player and Dealer's starting total ending in the same number between 7 and 0 is it even possible to figure out?

Should be no harder than figuring out basic strategy assuming infinite decks.

I wonder how the existence of a tie bet, if you could make it seeing your first two cards, would change basic strategy. For example, on a soft 18 would you stand on a hand you'd otherwise hit or double on due to the possibility of a push?
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
• Posts: 5328
September 11th, 2011 at 6:14:47 PM permalink
I don't think figuring out basic strategy is simple at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
• Posts: 2210
September 11th, 2011 at 6:36:45 PM permalink
I played a bonus joker game where if you got a standoff you could keep the joker. What it meant was rather than standing on 12 vs 4 - where you'll either win or lose - the best play was to hit since the standoff has the additional value of keeping the joker.

When working out infinite deck, I usually only use expected payback and compare the various options to have (split, double, hit, stand) as to which gives the higher return (rather than wins/loses). It's not that difficult if you know spreadsheets and can do X=(4*A+B+....+J)/13. I always use that method for calculating how to play jokers and new variants.
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
• Posts: 3565
September 11th, 2011 at 10:54:51 PM permalink
7outineaway,

I don't think there is any doubt basic strategy changes in the scenario you gave. At 10-1 odds it has to chance the play once some of the less desirable results are already out of the picture.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
NotThisTime
Joined: Nov 21, 2010