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April 19th, 2011 at 10:20:24 AM
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Hello everybody,
In Holland Casino there is a new type of Blackjack, called Blackjack Switch. You play 2 hands and can switch the cards.
These are the rules:
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 1:1
21 after a switch is just a normal '21' and does not count as a natural BJ.
DAS is allowed.
Double down only on 9,10,11 with first 2 cards.
Double down after switch is allowed
You can split as many times as you want.
Splitting after switch is also allowed.
Splitting aces is allowed
Hit splitted aces is NOT allowed.
No hole card (european style).
No surrender
Dealers 22 is a 'push'
Also here we use a 6-deck with automatic shuffler after each round.
Can somebody give me the exact house edge?
And is there an alternative basic strategy?
Please let me know and thanx!
In Holland Casino there is a new type of Blackjack, called Blackjack Switch. You play 2 hands and can switch the cards.
These are the rules:
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 1:1
21 after a switch is just a normal '21' and does not count as a natural BJ.
DAS is allowed.
Double down only on 9,10,11 with first 2 cards.
Double down after switch is allowed
You can split as many times as you want.
Splitting after switch is also allowed.
Splitting aces is allowed
Hit splitted aces is NOT allowed.
No hole card (european style).
No surrender
Dealers 22 is a 'push'
Also here we use a 6-deck with automatic shuffler after each round.
Can somebody give me the exact house edge?
And is there an alternative basic strategy?
Please let me know and thanx!
April 19th, 2011 at 3:31:26 PM
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Quote: UWPeteOSounds a lot like the game available in Vegas, namely Casino Royale. The Wizard has the game deconstructed here.
The strategy appears to be applicable, except because in the OP's case the game has ENHC you probably shouldn't split AA vs. A (and possibly AA vs. 10). Blackjack Switch does not have any other doubles or splits vs. 10. The switching strategy may also be slightly different when switching to or from a pair of aces against one of those upcards. Also, since soft doubling is not allowed those hands' switching strategy (whether to or from) may also be affected.
April 19th, 2011 at 3:45:55 PM
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Game is available online at many places.
April 19th, 2011 at 3:59:52 PM
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Jimmy, are you texting your posts to WoO? Are you operating under a strict 100 character limit?
Not saying that's a bad thing. I actually like your short posts.
Not saying that's a bad thing. I actually like your short posts.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
April 19th, 2011 at 4:21:35 PM
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Quote: teddysNot saying that's a bad thing. I actually like your short posts.
I stopped noticing them.
I think he's related to the Singer-Logan tribe. But I can't prove it.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
April 21st, 2011 at 6:37:07 PM
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Hi Ramond,
I asked Holland Casino for the house edge. They mailed me the following:
--------------------------------------------------------
Hartelijk dank voor uw bericht aan Holland Casino.
Bij een optimale spelstrategie is het theoretische uitkeringspercentage 99.39% bij de Black Jack Switch.
Wij hopen hiermee uw vraag beantwoordt te hebben.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Customer Services
Holland Casino
------------------------------------------------------
This means a house edge of 0,61%, which I am absolutely sure that this is not right and is much lower.
See also:
You can also find the basic strategy AFTER the switch decision. You can find a switch decision calculator onbased on the Wizard of Odds. There is also a Iphone app available. Know that due to the no hole card rule the decisions in the app are not right all the time when the dealer has a ten or an ace. I made a decision calculator for myself in Excel which is more exact (also based on the numbers of the Wizard). You can have the Excel-sheet if you want to.
The basic strategy is different from the normal basic strategy due to the 22 push rule. The differences are:
- Buy with 13 against a dealer's 2
- Buy with 12 against a 4
- Do not double down 9 against a 3 and 4
- Do not double down 10 against 9
- Only split 2/3's against 5, 6 and 7
- Do not split 4's
- Only split 6's against 4, 5 and 6
- Only split 7's against 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7
- Only split 9's against 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9
- The rest of the basic strategy is exactly the same.
Use the switch decision calculator to practice in an online casino and be aware of the differences between the rules between Holland Casino and the casino! For example: A switched blackjack counts as 21 and not as a blackjack.
There are some important rule of thumbs when you play this game in Holland Casino:
- Never switch a natural blackjack when dealer has a 2-6, 10 or 11
- 19 in one hand is better than 11 in the other hand (except formed with A/8), sometimes against a 6 you should take the 11 and double down.
- 11 or 10 in one hand is better than 18 in the other hand (except against a 7).
The Wizard has calculated a house edge of 0,58%.
If dealer stands on soft 17 you can substract 0,30% which results in 0,28%.
The differences between the Vegas rules and the Holland Casino rules are the following:
- No hole card.
Tis means no splitting aces against a ace. Impact is 0,016% on the house edge if we assume that switches do not impact the number of appearances (AA against A) in the game. However the impact is lower I think, because I expect that the ace will be switched a lot of times, especially when 19, 20 or 21 can be formed, and there is not really a reason to switch to AA for the same reason.
- No doubling down on soft hands.
Impact is 0,018% on the house edge if we assume the switches do not impact the number of appearances (soft hands which should be doubled according to basic strategy).
- Resplit aces is alllowed, but not in Las Vegas (as far as I know)
Impact is a decrease in the house edge of 0,08% in normal blackjack according to Wizard of odds. However due to the 22-push rule the expected value of the splitted aces is much lower and some AA-combinations will be switched to a better "total combination" of the two hands you play. So the decrease in house edge is lower than 0,08%.
Let's say that it is 0,034% (the same as the previous two increases in house edge).
Then we can say that the house edge is approximately 0,28% and maybe even 0,26% due to fact that resplitting aces is allowed.
This is lower than the 0,5% in regular BlackJack in Holland Casino.
Holland Casino Eindhoven also offers the game with minimum bets of € 10 per box instead of € 20 in Rotterdam.
And only play this game if you have learned the strategies, or the casino will have a much higher house edge! And don't care about the other players when you buy with 12 against a 4. It is statistically better...
I asked Holland Casino for the house edge. They mailed me the following:
--------------------------------------------------------
Hartelijk dank voor uw bericht aan Holland Casino.
Bij een optimale spelstrategie is het theoretische uitkeringspercentage 99.39% bij de Black Jack Switch.
Wij hopen hiermee uw vraag beantwoordt te hebben.
Met vriendelijke groet,
Customer Services
Holland Casino
------------------------------------------------------
This means a house edge of 0,61%, which I am absolutely sure that this is not right and is much lower.
See also:
You can also find the basic strategy AFTER the switch decision. You can find a switch decision calculator onbased on the Wizard of Odds. There is also a Iphone app available. Know that due to the no hole card rule the decisions in the app are not right all the time when the dealer has a ten or an ace. I made a decision calculator for myself in Excel which is more exact (also based on the numbers of the Wizard). You can have the Excel-sheet if you want to.
The basic strategy is different from the normal basic strategy due to the 22 push rule. The differences are:
- Buy with 13 against a dealer's 2
- Buy with 12 against a 4
- Do not double down 9 against a 3 and 4
- Do not double down 10 against 9
- Only split 2/3's against 5, 6 and 7
- Do not split 4's
- Only split 6's against 4, 5 and 6
- Only split 7's against 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7
- Only split 9's against 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9
- The rest of the basic strategy is exactly the same.
Use the switch decision calculator to practice in an online casino and be aware of the differences between the rules between Holland Casino and the casino! For example: A switched blackjack counts as 21 and not as a blackjack.
There are some important rule of thumbs when you play this game in Holland Casino:
- Never switch a natural blackjack when dealer has a 2-6, 10 or 11
- 19 in one hand is better than 11 in the other hand (except formed with A/8), sometimes against a 6 you should take the 11 and double down.
- 11 or 10 in one hand is better than 18 in the other hand (except against a 7).
The Wizard has calculated a house edge of 0,58%.
If dealer stands on soft 17 you can substract 0,30% which results in 0,28%.
The differences between the Vegas rules and the Holland Casino rules are the following:
- No hole card.
Tis means no splitting aces against a ace. Impact is 0,016% on the house edge if we assume that switches do not impact the number of appearances (AA against A) in the game. However the impact is lower I think, because I expect that the ace will be switched a lot of times, especially when 19, 20 or 21 can be formed, and there is not really a reason to switch to AA for the same reason.
- No doubling down on soft hands.
Impact is 0,018% on the house edge if we assume the switches do not impact the number of appearances (soft hands which should be doubled according to basic strategy).
- Resplit aces is alllowed, but not in Las Vegas (as far as I know)
Impact is a decrease in the house edge of 0,08% in normal blackjack according to Wizard of odds. However due to the 22-push rule the expected value of the splitted aces is much lower and some AA-combinations will be switched to a better "total combination" of the two hands you play. So the decrease in house edge is lower than 0,08%.
Let's say that it is 0,034% (the same as the previous two increases in house edge).
Then we can say that the house edge is approximately 0,28% and maybe even 0,26% due to fact that resplitting aces is allowed.
This is lower than the 0,5% in regular BlackJack in Holland Casino.
Holland Casino Eindhoven also offers the game with minimum bets of € 10 per box instead of € 20 in Rotterdam.
And only play this game if you have learned the strategies, or the casino will have a much higher house edge! And don't care about the other players when you buy with 12 against a 4. It is statistically better...
April 21st, 2011 at 8:26:39 PM
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That's quite a comprehensive post Tino and contains some useful information.
When I calculated the house edge for the UK, (which is the same as Holland), I got a figure of 0.28%, for re-splitting Aces and 0.31% for not allowing Aces to be re-split. So I would agree with your calculations in your post.
Have you seen the game at Rotterdam? If so then is it getting much action from the players?
When I calculated the house edge for the UK, (which is the same as Holland), I got a figure of 0.28%, for re-splitting Aces and 0.31% for not allowing Aces to be re-split. So I would agree with your calculations in your post.
Have you seen the game at Rotterdam? If so then is it getting much action from the players?
April 22nd, 2011 at 2:24:46 PM
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I have seen the game in Rotterdam, only on the evening when the game started. People were interested. I play it now regularly in Eindhoven. It is very popular yes.
April 27th, 2011 at 6:17:34 AM
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Thank you Tino!!
People of Holland Casino never know the exact house edges for games. A lot of people and croupiers don't even know about basic strategy (even with normal BJ).
But thank you! I'm going to play the game in Rotterdam tomorrow. I see there is only 1 table. Is it very busy? Do I need to be there when the table gets open?
How many players can sit on the table?
And a house edge around 0,28%.. woooww! thats amazing.
I got something for you (I posted it earlier). Go to Belgium, Middelkerke Casino. THERE IS NO HOUSE EDGE ON BLACKJACK.
Surrender against 10 is allowed.
Double down on any 2 cards allowed.
Hit splitted aces allowed.
5 cards win pays 3:2
6 cards win pays 2:1
7 cards win pays 5:1.
All t he other rules are the same as in Holland Casino (S17, BJ pays 3:2, DAS Allowed etc etc etc).
People of Holland Casino never know the exact house edges for games. A lot of people and croupiers don't even know about basic strategy (even with normal BJ).
But thank you! I'm going to play the game in Rotterdam tomorrow. I see there is only 1 table. Is it very busy? Do I need to be there when the table gets open?
How many players can sit on the table?
And a house edge around 0,28%.. woooww! thats amazing.
I got something for you (I posted it earlier). Go to Belgium, Middelkerke Casino. THERE IS NO HOUSE EDGE ON BLACKJACK.
Surrender against 10 is allowed.
Double down on any 2 cards allowed.
Hit splitted aces allowed.
5 cards win pays 3:2
6 cards win pays 2:1
7 cards win pays 5:1.
All t he other rules are the same as in Holland Casino (S17, BJ pays 3:2, DAS Allowed etc etc etc).
April 27th, 2011 at 2:53:56 PM
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Here is a little secret. I hope to have a switching strategy on my site within a week.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
April 28th, 2011 at 11:00:16 PM
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Yesterday I played Blackjack Switch in Holland Casino Rotterdam for the first time. After starting losing I came back with soms good doubles and splits and came 7 units in front en walked away. What I see is that it's to lose a lot of units in 1 evening, but also hard to win a lot of units because most of the times you win 1 hand, and lose the other hand.
Most of the times the switching strategy was obvious... but sometimes I didn't know exactly what to do. For example, I had 9 and 9 against 6. I choose to switch and get 8 and 10.. only doubling the 10. Was that a good move? And what about 19 and S17, switching to 20 and 16 against lower dealer cards. I switched but I might be better to not switch and improve your S17 hand.
I think I also had a situation, 10 and 10 against a 5. I again choose to switch to 9 and 11 and doubled both hands.
I'm really looking forward to Wizards little secret:).
And I'm still want to know the exact house edge.
And Tino, it was funny, also in this game almost everyone didn't know basic strategy:).
Most of the times the switching strategy was obvious... but sometimes I didn't know exactly what to do. For example, I had 9 and 9 against 6. I choose to switch and get 8 and 10.. only doubling the 10. Was that a good move? And what about 19 and S17, switching to 20 and 16 against lower dealer cards. I switched but I might be better to not switch and improve your S17 hand.
I think I also had a situation, 10 and 10 against a 5. I again choose to switch to 9 and 11 and doubled both hands.
I'm really looking forward to Wizards little secret:).
And I'm still want to know the exact house edge.
And Tino, it was funny, also in this game almost everyone didn't know basic strategy:).
April 30th, 2011 at 2:17:32 AM
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Tino, I still got a couple of strategy questions about switching (or maybe the wizard can answer it).
Specific for the Holland Casino Rules (stand S17, DD only on 9,10,11 , no hole card and switching to a 21 is just a normal 21, no BJ).
Most of the time it are the soft hands (against lower dealer cards) which are hard to me.
Here I have some examples:
Hand 1: S19 (8+A)
Hand 2: 12, 13, 14 (does not really matter) lets say 3+10
So I think you always have to switch under the rules of Holland Casino. Take a weaker 18 in hand 1 but a chance to improve hand 2. Am I right?
And what about this (against low dealer cards):
Hand 1: S18 (7+A)
Hand 2: 12,13,14,15 or 16
Switch most of the times to try to improve your 2nd hand? Doubling the S18 is not allowed so why don't switch?
And my last example is 20 on hand 1 and hand 2 is a soft 20 against a 10. Do you have to switch to 21 and 19? The 21 will not count as BJ.
This decissions above are the hardest I guess. Do you have some advice?
Thnx!
Specific for the Holland Casino Rules (stand S17, DD only on 9,10,11 , no hole card and switching to a 21 is just a normal 21, no BJ).
Most of the time it are the soft hands (against lower dealer cards) which are hard to me.
Here I have some examples:
Hand 1: S19 (8+A)
Hand 2: 12, 13, 14 (does not really matter) lets say 3+10
So I think you always have to switch under the rules of Holland Casino. Take a weaker 18 in hand 1 but a chance to improve hand 2. Am I right?
And what about this (against low dealer cards):
Hand 1: S18 (7+A)
Hand 2: 12,13,14,15 or 16
Switch most of the times to try to improve your 2nd hand? Doubling the S18 is not allowed so why don't switch?
And my last example is 20 on hand 1 and hand 2 is a soft 20 against a 10. Do you have to switch to 21 and 19? The 21 will not count as BJ.
This decissions above are the hardest I guess. Do you have some advice?
Thnx!
August 2nd, 2011 at 12:39:31 AM
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Unfortunately the removed the BJ Switch table in Rotterdam. Some employees of the casino told me that the casino didn't made enough profit to keep the game in the casino.
I told them they still have a house edge of 0,26% but they think the game will never come back in Rotterdam. I don't know about Holland Casino Enschede and Holland Casino Eindhoven.
It bit sad because I had soms fantastic nights, sometimes even come up +40 units (flat betting!) which is a lot I think. My worst evening was around -25 units.
Do other people on this forum played in Rotterdam, Enschede or Eindhoven?
I told them they still have a house edge of 0,26% but they think the game will never come back in Rotterdam. I don't know about Holland Casino Enschede and Holland Casino Eindhoven.
It bit sad because I had soms fantastic nights, sometimes even come up +40 units (flat betting!) which is a lot I think. My worst evening was around -25 units.
Do other people on this forum played in Rotterdam, Enschede or Eindhoven?
August 2nd, 2011 at 1:06:50 AM
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Hi Raymond,
That's bad news - the news hasn't filtered to me yet.
It's always disappointing when the game gets taken out particularly if the game is popular amongst players. The main reasons are:-
1. The game is quite volatile at times and the results can be the wrong side of the expectation curve.
2. The dealers occasionally pay out on a '22' - this is the main culprit.
3. The game attracts a better standard player so the hold % is reduced - this is speculation but a possibility.
I will see if I can find out about the other 2 casinos and also see if I can look at any results on the game. By my calculations, the game has been in Rotterdam around 3 months so it's no where near to being able to ascertain the hold % of the game. Of course, if the game is not being played then that would be a different story.
I'll report back if I hear anything worthwhile. If you find out about the other 2 casinos in the meantime then please post or message me.
That's bad news - the news hasn't filtered to me yet.
It's always disappointing when the game gets taken out particularly if the game is popular amongst players. The main reasons are:-
1. The game is quite volatile at times and the results can be the wrong side of the expectation curve.
2. The dealers occasionally pay out on a '22' - this is the main culprit.
3. The game attracts a better standard player so the hold % is reduced - this is speculation but a possibility.
I will see if I can find out about the other 2 casinos and also see if I can look at any results on the game. By my calculations, the game has been in Rotterdam around 3 months so it's no where near to being able to ascertain the hold % of the game. Of course, if the game is not being played then that would be a different story.
I'll report back if I hear anything worthwhile. If you find out about the other 2 casinos in the meantime then please post or message me.
August 2nd, 2011 at 1:50:13 AM
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You're right at that point. The table minimum was €20,-/€20,-. But a lot of good players (basic strategy players, including myself) played €100,-/€100,- or even €200.-/€200,- and won a lot.
Also in the beginning some croupiers forgot about the 22-push rule and indead, this makes the statistics terrible for the casino.
But I'm still dissapointing. Rotterdam is a big casino with a lot of normal blackjack, roulette and baccarat/punto-banco tables. There was only 1 BJ Switch table and it was only open from 20.00u till 03.00u in the night. Only 1 table so what's the problem I think?!
The table was popular and always full. You always had to be there at 20.00u or else you had to wait hours for a seat.
Do you know if there is also a BJ Switch table in Holland Casino Scheveningen (nearby Rotterdam).
Also in the beginning some croupiers forgot about the 22-push rule and indead, this makes the statistics terrible for the casino.
But I'm still dissapointing. Rotterdam is a big casino with a lot of normal blackjack, roulette and baccarat/punto-banco tables. There was only 1 BJ Switch table and it was only open from 20.00u till 03.00u in the night. Only 1 table so what's the problem I think?!
The table was popular and always full. You always had to be there at 20.00u or else you had to wait hours for a seat.
Do you know if there is also a BJ Switch table in Holland Casino Scheveningen (nearby Rotterdam).
August 2nd, 2011 at 8:39:42 AM
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But I'm still dissapointing. Rotterdam is a big casino with a lot of normal blackjack, roulette and baccarat/punto-banco tables. There was only 1 BJ Switch table and it was only open from 20.00u till 03.00u in the night. Only 1 table so what's the problem I think?!
The table was popular and always full. You always had to be there at 20.00u or else you had to wait hours for a seat.
Here in the USA in 2000 at the Isle of Capri I saw Digital 21 and Let It Ride both killed during a trial by the dealers and/or Management
The table was popular and always full. You always had to be there at 20.00u or else you had to wait hours for a seat.
Here in the USA in 2000 at the Isle of Capri I saw Digital 21 and Let It Ride both killed during a trial by the dealers and/or Management
August 4th, 2011 at 1:36:22 AM
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Yesterday I called Holland Casino Eindhoven & Enschede.
There are no more BJ Switch tables in Holland at the moment. The tables were an experiment and the results were very bad for the casino. There is only a really small chanche they put the tables back in the future, and when they do, it will be a second experiment.
There are no more BJ Switch tables in Holland at the moment. The tables were an experiment and the results were very bad for the casino. There is only a really small chanche they put the tables back in the future, and when they do, it will be a second experiment.