Triple Deck Composition-Dependent Surrender
October 5th, 2025 at 2:52:56 PM
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I noticed that the Wizard's article about composition-dependent surrendering in Blackjack didn't include 3-deck blackjack, which I have seen in California.
I took matters into my own hands and here is what I found.
In 4-deck blackjack, you surrender a 16 against a 9. In 2-deck blackjack you don't.
In 3-deck blackjack, you surrender a [9+7] against a 9 but not a [10+6] against a 9.
This is true for S17 and H17.
Everything else is the same for S17, now let's talk about H17.
Like 4-deck blackjack, you always surrender an 16 against an Ace including [8+8].
Like 2-deck blackjack, you surrender a 15 against an Ace unless it's [8+7].
To be clear, this is talking about Late Surrender. I hope this esoteric information will bring happiness to someone.
I took matters into my own hands and here is what I found.
In 4-deck blackjack, you surrender a 16 against a 9. In 2-deck blackjack you don't.
In 3-deck blackjack, you surrender a [9+7] against a 9 but not a [10+6] against a 9.
This is true for S17 and H17.
Everything else is the same for S17, now let's talk about H17.
Like 4-deck blackjack, you always surrender an 16 against an Ace including [8+8].
Like 2-deck blackjack, you surrender a 15 against an Ace unless it's [8+7].
To be clear, this is talking about Late Surrender. I hope this esoteric information will bring happiness to someone.
October 5th, 2025 at 4:17:27 PM
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As I told you, these are marginal differences. We counters always neglect. We care about substantial differences, such as:
1. Are these triple deck games in existence? If yes, where are they?
2. Is a blackjack hand paid 3:2 or 6:5 there? This is an EV difference of delta=1.5-1.2=0.3.
3. The EV difference between 9,7 vs 9 and 10,6 vs 9 is barely 0.0009, so it’s really negligible to anybody who bets $10.
1. Are these triple deck games in existence? If yes, where are they?
2. Is a blackjack hand paid 3:2 or 6:5 there? This is an EV difference of delta=1.5-1.2=0.3.
3. The EV difference between 9,7 vs 9 and 10,6 vs 9 is barely 0.0009, so it’s really negligible to anybody who bets $10.
October 5th, 2025 at 5:07:24 PM
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1. Yes, in the SF Bay Area
2. 3:2
3. Okay but it's not negligible anymore when I bet $100,000/hand which I totally do all the time
2. 3:2
3. Okay but it's not negligible anymore when I bet $100,000/hand which I totally do all the time
October 5th, 2025 at 5:10:20 PM
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A typical blackjack table usually has a table limit of $500 or $1000. If $1000, $1000x0.0009=$0.90.
October 6th, 2025 at 7:09:37 AM
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Quote: acesideA typical blackjack table usually has a table limit of $500 or $1000. If $1000, $1000x0.0009=$0.90.
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Many of us enjoy Harris' posts about gaming math. If they don't scratch your itch, that's okay, that's your opinion. But you don't represent the opinion of many of us who fight for every 0.1% on every hand. Even 0.09 percent.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
October 6th, 2025 at 8:18:37 AM
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I guess we’re not gonna write a scientific paper out of this. I still hope Harris can consider the pair splitting problems that have been bothering me for some time.
October 6th, 2025 at 9:19:42 AM
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I have a couple things on my plate right now but I am going to make an engine that can solve your problem and others in blackjack and blackjack-like games.
