backed off forever?

I finally got backed off for the first time after 58 hours at a casino. Surveillance [the man in the suit] tapped me on the shoulder, motioned me away from the table, and said "based on your card play we are backing you off from all table games (only bj was offered) for the rest of the night. You can go ahead and cash in your chips." I just acted confused, said ok, went to the bathroom for a bit, and left. Does this mean I have a chance at coming back? I would say definitely yes if this were a large casino, but it's my local one. 80% + of the dealers know me by name and 2/3 pit bosses also know me. We get along pretty well and it wasn't until 32.5 hours in I got my first bit of heat after winning 150 units in a shoe. Ever since the main pit boss has (I think) jokingly referred to me as the card counter and (maybe pretends to) call surveillance when he sees me. I've had about 5 sessions of that 4 hours each and absolutely no heat came of that. It wasn't until a Sunday night where 2/10 tables were open and the main pit boss wasn't working. After about 30 minutes of being there the phone rang 3 separate times (indicating I was recognized somehow) which I didn't worry about. An hour and a half into my session, I got backed off. So, do I have a chance back at this place? The rules are really good here: standard H17, 6d, 1deck pen (sometimes less depending on dealer), up to 3 spots. And at one particular table 4 decks with 0.75 penetration. Along with the added convenience of ASM and being able to use your phone at the table. The 2 other casinos I've been to are both 2 spots, 1.5 pen, no ASM, and HATE phones at the table. one of those casinos is also only 1-10 table limits which halves my EV

Sounds like they were right to back you off, casinos don't like card counters. I'm always very careful of my local casino because I don't want to screw it up because the nearest casinos are over an hour away. They will probably let you back in but they're going to be watching everything you do now they won't hesitate to back you off again. It makes them look good, to management it looks like they're doing their job. Believe me the guy who backed you off got high fives from all his buddies because it doesn't happen everyday.

Were you playing rated? If so, you can never play rated there again. There will be a note on your player account and if you sit at a blackjack table they will probably either auto review your play (and ban you again, maybe casino wide this time) or just tell you no blackjack and if you try again they'll trespass you.

Sure, people remember faces/names, but it all fades with time. This might not be what you want to hear, but you can probably go back, in a year or two. Casinos often have high turnover rate so not only do you let your face fade, but you also allow for new dealers/pit/surveillance to come in.

A couple years ago I had an issue at a casino I was frequenting a lot at the time and making a lot of money off of. They simply said I had a 24 hour "warning" as I wasn't doing anything illegal but I was doing things the casino doesn't like and I had a good act (I could tell they weren't 'sure' about me). No, I wasn't playing blackjack so it wasn't as black and white for them. I didn't go back to that casino for over 1 year... and I've been going there and being even more careful and haven't had any issues at all for a year+ now. Had I gone back prematurely and perhaps gotten hit again when it was fresh, they might have trespassed me and I could have never gone back. Food for thought.

One thing to understand though - this is going to happen, no matter what you do. Eventually with blackjack it's just too easy to spot. Let alone it's also the most known thing to the public and even though there are plenty of higher edges to be had it's one of the biggest things casinos also look for. No blackjack counter can count the same casino forever without getting the boot. So even if you could go back and play, eventually it's just going to happen again. Whether it's 10 minutes, 10 hours, 100 hours, or whatever you'll get tossed from there again.

Perhaps this is a good time/opportunity to learn how to beat the casinos away from the blackjack tables. The edges/EV are generally much higher to boot. You just don't "always" have a game to play every single day is the trade off... but with multiple casinos you can almost always find something.

Quote: EvenBob

Sounds like they were right to back you off, casinos don't like card counters. I'm always very careful of my local casino because I don't want to screw it up because the nearest casinos are over an hour away.
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I thought you didn't play in brick and mortar casinos?

They said for the rest of the night. You can go back. I just would change my game so I didn't play by card counting rules.

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: EvenBob

Sounds like they were right to back you off, casinos don't like card counters. I'm always very careful of my local casino because I don't want to screw it up because the nearest casinos are over an hour away.
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I thought you didn't play in brick and mortar casinos?
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I don't but I played them for so many years it feels like I never stopped

Rated? yes. wdym by this quote?

"Perhaps this is a good time/opportunity to learn how to beat the casinos away from the blackjack tables. The edges/EV are generally much higher to boot. You just don't "always" have a game to play every single day is the trade off... but with multiple casinos you can almost always find something."

the table games offered at the 3 closest casinos are blackjack, ultimate texas holdem, and Mississipi stud. I guess there's blazing 7s bj but the grand is no where near high enough for it to be worth it. My bankroll is ~$10k also

might be time for a road trip soon if I get a little more money

google "shufflemaster bloodhound" to understand that they've had the technology to track or rate your play based on IF you are card counting - your decisions and play is rated against a card counters play and knows the count of the cards etc . i assume as of this point it is not manually done but i am not sure

Quote: heatmap

google "shufflemaster bloodhound" to understand that they've had the technology to track or rate your play based on IF you are card counting - your decisions and play is rated against a card counters play and knows the count of the cards etc . i assume as of this point it is not manually done but i am not sure
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you can count but not with hi-lo. use some other counting system. it throws the computer off and also throws the stupid pitbosses off

Quote: VladPutin

Quote: heatmap

google "shufflemaster bloodhound" to understand that they've had the technology to track or rate your play based on IF you are card counting - your decisions and play is rated against a card counters play and knows the count of the cards etc . i assume as of this point it is not manually done but i am not sure
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you can count but not with hi-lo. use some other counting system. it throws the computer off and also throws the stupid pitbosses off
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No it doesn’t

Quote: mcallister3200

Quote: VladPutin

Quote: heatmap

google "shufflemaster bloodhound" to understand that they've had the technology to track or rate your play based on IF you are card counting - your decisions and play is rated against a card counters play and knows the count of the cards etc . i assume as of this point it is not manually done but i am not sure
link to original post

you can count but not with hi-lo. use some other counting system. it throws the computer off and also throws the stupid pitbosses off
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No it doesn’t
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I've heard unconfirmed stories of several people card counting very successfully in vegas sweatshop El Cortez single deck and made tens of thousands by using a different counting system, using single deck composition dependent strategy based on all cards out (not just 10s vs low cards).

in one of the situations, pitboss came over and backed off the hi-lo counter, what was interesting, he told me, was that at the moment of the backup, the hi-lo counter was actually playing incorrectly by the standards of composition play counting he used.

It also helps significantly that using a composition dependent count system on the el cortez single deck allowed him to make what looks like "extremely crazy plays" that are actually correct.

The infamous sweat shop never gave him or any of his friends any trouble. A hi-lo counter can't last in el cortez for more than 20 minutes