GMan
GMan
Joined: Jan 5, 2013
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January 3rd, 2022 at 8:08:04 AM permalink
Since a Pit Boss has ZERO brain, he might legitimately thinks that any form of using his brain is illegal.
G Man
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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January 3rd, 2022 at 10:32:21 AM permalink
Quote: GMan

Since a Pit Boss has ZERO brain, he might legitimately thinks that any form of using his brain is illegal.
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I concur with that. Having worked in the Las Vegas Gaming market for 30 years I am still astounded at how little casino employees know about gambling. I mainly worked with Slot Directors and they are some of the most superstitious people that I have met.
Order from chaos
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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January 3rd, 2022 at 10:36:52 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

A long time ago I was informed that they use a particular technology - if you’ve ever heard of bloodhound - and this was told to me when it was sands.

I don’t believe it was illegal here either but I think they do what they can to figure out if someone is counting. He also said the managers have to know how to count cards in order to spot the counters.

I believe all of you guys though.

And thatdonguy I am almost certain I know the exact law you speak of but it has to do with the shufflers not being able to give the Patron information about the shuffle… however that would happen I have no clue tbh
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Lol at the managers have to know how to count cards.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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Thanks for this post from:
heatmap
January 3rd, 2022 at 10:39:18 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

A long time ago I was informed that they use a particular technology - if you’ve ever heard of bloodhound - and this was told to me when it was sands.

I don’t believe it was illegal here either but I think they do what they can to figure out if someone is counting. He also said the managers have to know how to count cards in order to spot the counters.

I believe all of you guys though.

And thatdonguy I am almost certain I know the exact law you speak of but it has to do with the shufflers not being able to give the Patron information about the shuffle… however that would happen I have no clue tbh
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Lol at the managers have to know how to count cards. You found a guy, there are many of them among humans, who likes to run his mouth making stuff up to anyone he thinks will listen to it or who might think he knows what he’s talking about.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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January 11th, 2022 at 8:56:14 PM permalink
Casino employee doesn't know:

A) The rules of their own game.
B) The strategy of their own game.
C) Any law pretty much ever about money, devices, or advantage players (such as illegal detentions, kidnapping, using the police to obtain information, etc).

This fits 999/1,000 casino employees.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Gundy
Gundy
Joined: Feb 25, 2021
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January 12th, 2022 at 4:39:10 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Casino employee doesn't know:

A) The rules of their own game.
B) The strategy of their own game.
C) Any law pretty much ever about money, devices, or advantage players (such as illegal detentions, kidnapping, using the police to obtain information, etc).

This fits 999/1,000 casino employees.
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That's right. A monkey could deal if they could be taught to ask, "insurance?". And wouldn't whine like a human dealer.
7Ate9
7Ate9
Joined: Feb 12, 2022
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February 14th, 2022 at 1:10:51 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I recently had a conversation with what I think was some kind of floor manager. I mentioned card counting to him when I was babbling on and he said that it was illegal in PA to card count compared to Vegas where it isn’t we’re his words. I thought it wasn’t. Kewlj or someone who knows the laws of PA know if this is true or not?

Just a reminder I am not a card counter nor have I ever been which is why I’m comfortable joking with floor people about this particular subject and I do make a lot of mistakes apparently when I play so I’m a recreational player pretty much for fun.
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As a general rule, casino's would like you to think that *anything* that gives you an advantage is "cheating" and/or "illegal". They want to keep you intimidated and misinformed because they don't want you doing anything in their casinos except losing money.

...Of course they will run commercials and take out radio ads and have giant billboards which all show a player or a group of players sitting around a blackjack table or slot machine with their hands in the air and giant smiles on their faces with the implication they just won a lot of money. They'll tell you: "Win BIG at our casino!";"Our slots are loose!"; "We have more winners!" "Come win big at <casino name here>!"

In reality, however, if you "win big" they'll kick you out of the casino (and sometimes threaten to throw you off the property for "trespassing"). If one of their slot machines was indeed "loose" (and it doesn't even have to give the player any advantage at all), they'll quickly remove that slot machine and replace it with one that will steal your money even quicker. They're so paranoid about card counters they even kick out bad ones who are just breaking even or losing money.

It's been many decades since casinos were ran by the mob, but they're still just as evil as they ever were. They'll weasel their way into a community, and then underpay their employees while they suck every dime out of that community they can get away with. They'll watch people gamble away their life savings, commit suicide in their rooms, see families broken up and destroyed--and all-the-while they have actuaries tweaking this or that so they can put the squeeze on you even harder. Absolutely everything in a casino--to the tiniest detail--is designed solely with the goal to separate you from your wallet. Casino's don't want winners--they only want suckers.

Sometimes their employees aren't too bright and they'll believe their own propaganda. You'll get a pit boss who really does think that card counting is illegal, and then they'll detain you in the casino while they call the police. This is a great thing when it happens, because then you get to sue them for false imprisonment, the intentional infliction of emotional distress (as well as a host of many other possible Causes of Action)--and because the casino doesn't want the bad publicity, they'll trip over themselves to give you a very generous out of court settlement. There are people who have made more money when that happens than they ever made counting cards.
Mukke
Mukke
Joined: Mar 24, 2019
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February 14th, 2022 at 5:31:23 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

They'll weasel their way into a community, and then underpay their employees while they suck every dime out of that community they can get away with. They'll watch people gamble away their life savings, commit suicide in their rooms, see families broken up and destroyed--and all-the-while they have actuaries tweaking this or that so they can put the squeeze on you even harder. Absolutely everything in a casino--to the tiniest detail--is designed solely with the goal to separate you from your wallet. Casino's don't want winners--they only want suckers.
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The funny thing is.. as an AP it continues to amaze me that the casinos don't do more to stop AP against slots. When I visited Vegas, I saw APers everywhere. I did have a chat with some and there was some talk about casinos not liking them, but if they at all cared they could easily do more to stop people. I saw very little "obfuscation" on the part of the APs - everything was very visible in the open.

I do know of one case outside of Vegas where the casino one day removed most of their APable machines. From what I was told (by other APs and an employee at the place), apparently one day one of the regulars decided to show off his thing to his host. The next week the machines were gone. Now why someone would do that is anyone's guess, but the fact the casino did something about it AFTER being told about it seems to indicate they were oblivious to it before being explicitly told. How is that even possible?

This brings me to my next point: Part of me would love to work for a casino. I would love to run big data analysis on all the data and telemetry from players playing slots. We all assume that the casinos known down to the very minute when anyone plays what machine and for how long, but based on the above, I sometimes wonder if they even know how many machines they have in the place. I've seen so much poor management that I seriously doubt these folks have any clue what they are doing.

But.. I can't bring myself to work for a casino. While I have now doubt I could do a very good job, I've seen and continue to see enough sad destinies at the casino, that I couldn't live with myself if I contributed to creating systems designed to lure more people in and extract more money from people who truly can't afford it in the first place.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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February 14th, 2022 at 5:53:18 PM permalink
An AP can better his income if he can discover new plays.

A casino employee gets the same income regardless when he does his job.

Unless they are shown an AP movez they have neither the knowledge nor inclination to do detective work on their own.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mukke
Mukke
Joined: Mar 24, 2019
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February 14th, 2022 at 10:03:03 PM permalink
I wouldn't expect the average casino employee or even host to care enough about APs to do anything about it.

But if I was running, as in owning or involved in the upper management of, a casino, this is absolutely something I would care about. Just like I would be doing statistical analysis of every machine and every player to look for anomalies. Even if you don't have any interest or knowledge of AP, wouldn't you want to know if someone was able to cheat at slots? Or do people so blindly trust in the technology and the "casino always wins" saying that they see no reason to verify?

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