niatross
• Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 21, 2015
February 9th, 2021 at 9:42:22 PM permalink
Being bored I decided to prove a point to myself that online BJ isn't fair or random. I played a game called Blackjack Premium Pro on the BorgataNJ Online site. I played 1000 hands to a winner over a few days. There were 92 pushes so it was actually 1092 hands. I only played 10 cents a hand because I'm not a sucker. The results were this. The dealer won 603 hands. I won 397. The dealer had blackjack 78 times. I only had blackjack 29. Now I'm not a statistics major so I need somebody to tell me that this game is fixed and the RNG is rigged. I was going to go to 2000 hands, maybe next week. But I'm guessing the results will be the same.
ssho88
• Posts: 669
Joined: Oct 16, 2011
February 9th, 2021 at 10:05:10 PM permalink
I think 1000 rounds(or even 2000) are not statistically significant.

My two cents is that you have to play at least "3 standard deviation rounds" before you can make any conclusion, i.e rounds = 3^2 * Var/ev^2 = 9 * 1.31/0.01^2 = 117900.
AxelWolf
• Posts: 22296
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
February 9th, 2021 at 11:24:00 PM permalink
Quote: niatross

Being bored I decided to prove a point to myself that online BJ isn't fair or random. I played a game called Blackjack Premium Pro on the BorgataNJ Online site. I played 1000 hands to a winner over a few days. There were 92 pushes so it was actually 1092 hands. I only played 10 cents a hand because I'm not a sucker. The results were this. The dealer won 603 hands. I won 397. The dealer had blackjack 78 times. I only had blackjack 29. Now I'm not a statistics major so I need somebody to tell me that this game is fixed and the RNG is rigged. I was going to go to 2000 hands, maybe next week. But I'm guessing the results will be the same.

Do they keep a log of all hands played? If not, you need to screen video capture your play. Then send that information to someone like the Wizard for a proper analysis.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SOOPOO
• Posts: 11153
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
February 10th, 2021 at 12:05:12 PM permalink
Quote: niatross

Being bored I decided to prove a point to myself that online BJ isn't fair or random. I played a game called Blackjack Premium Pro on the BorgataNJ Online site. I played 1000 hands to a winner over a few days. There were 92 pushes so it was actually 1092 hands. I only played 10 cents a hand because I'm not a sucker. The results were this. The dealer won 603 hands. I won 397. The dealer had blackjack 78 times. I only had blackjack 29. Now I'm not a statistics major so I need somebody to tell me that this game is fixed and the RNG is rigged. I was going to go to 2000 hands, maybe next week. But I'm guessing the results will be the same.

Each of you (player and house) should have gotten around 52 BJs over the 1092 hands. So you ran pretty bad, and the house ran pretty good.
The W/L part needs double down and split info to fully analyze.
Answer this... if the results had been reversed, would you have posted about a game rigged in favor of the player, or would you think you were just lucky?

Why would you say you are not a sucker? You clearly expected the game to be rigged against you and yet you still played, right? Donating \$20 to Borgata?
AxelWolf
• Posts: 22296
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
February 10th, 2021 at 3:37:54 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Each of you (player and house) should have gotten around 52 BJs over the 1092 hands. So you ran pretty bad, and the house ran pretty good.
The W/L part needs double down and split info to fully analyze.
Answer this... if the results had been reversed, would you have posted about a game rigged in favor of the player, or would you think you were just lucky?

Why would you say you are not a sucker? You clearly expected the game to be rigged against you and yet you still played, right? Donating \$20 to Borgata?

I don't see anything wrong with spending a small amount of money investigating and confirming something you think is true. However, you should take the extra steps needed to prove and back up your results.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
niatross
• Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 21, 2015
February 11th, 2021 at 2:33:00 PM permalink
I played basic strategy, I counted splits as a win if I won both, a push if 1-1, and a loss if I lost both. The roi was around 80 percent. There's no question in my mind if I went another 5000 hands the results would be similar. I've got no problem donating \$20 here or there especially since they had a 100 percent cashback promo up to \$50. I preceded to play 1 \$30 hand in which the dealer had blackjack to my 20 surprise surprise. Then I preceded to find out how long it would take to lose the next \$20 at 10 cents a hand, which was a little over 1000 hands. This game also employs the no peek rule but doesn't say so. I only figured that out when I aces to their ace, split them, wound up with 21 on both, and then watched the dealer turn over blackjack AND TAKE BOTH BETS lmao. My goal is to do 5000 hands over the next month. I'll post the results. I'm doing this because we have agency in NJ call the NJDGE, new jersey division of gaming enforcement, who's job it is to zealously protect the citizen against unfair gaming practices. That's what their website says. They're full of it. They do nothing. It's an agency stacked with political patronage jobs. I'm sure they'll say we test every RNG for fairness. Again lmao. So after 5000 hands with dealer winning 60 percent instead of 53, and the dealer having twice as many blackjacks, wonder what they'll say then.
SOOPOO
• Posts: 11153
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
February 11th, 2021 at 3:00:40 PM permalink
Quote: niatross

I played basic strategy, I counted splits as a win if I won both, a push if 1-1, and a loss if I lost both. The roi was around 80 percent. There's no question in my mind if I went another 5000 hands the results would be similar. I've got no problem donating \$20 here or there especially since they had a 100 percent cashback promo up to \$50. I preceded to play 1 \$30 hand in which the dealer had blackjack to my 20 surprise surprise. Then I preceded to find out how long it would take to lose the next \$20 at 10 cents a hand, which was a little over 1000 hands. This game also employs the no peek rule but doesn't say so. I only figured that out when I aces to their ace, split them, wound up with 21 on both, and then watched the dealer turn over blackjack AND TAKE BOTH BETS lmao. My goal is to do 5000 hands over the next month. I'll post the results. I'm doing this because we have agency in NJ call the NJDGE, new jersey division of gaming enforcement, who's job it is to zealously protect the citizen against unfair gaming practices. That's what their website says. They're full of it. They do nothing. It's an agency stacked with political patronage jobs. I'm sure they'll say we test every RNG for fairness. Again lmao. So after 5000 hands with dealer winning 60 percent instead of 53, and the dealer having twice as many blackjacks, wonder what they'll say then.

My apologies then. You are sort of doing what Mike has done here for a decade.

Question..... is there anyone else that you know of making the same complaint? It would seem odd that they specifically targeted you, right?
DRich
• Posts: 12050
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
February 11th, 2021 at 5:19:56 PM permalink
I will offer 10-1 odds that you can't get a legitimate sample that shows that the game is rigged in New Jersey.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SOOPOO
• Posts: 11153
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
February 11th, 2021 at 6:55:12 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I will offer 10-1 odds that you can't get a legitimate sample that shows that the game is rigged in New Jersey.

You KNOW this bet cannot be resolved. If he shows results two standard deviations from the norm is that good enough? What about 3 SD’s? What about 4? Who decides how many SD’s away from the norm ‘shows the game is rigged’?
DRich
• Posts: 12050
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
February 11th, 2021 at 7:30:08 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

You KNOW this bet cannot be resolved. If he shows results two standard deviations from the norm is that good enough? What about 3 SD’s? What about 4? Who decides how many SD’s away from the norm ‘shows the game is rigged’?

I would be fine with the Wizards opinion.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
heatmap
• Posts: 2288
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
February 11th, 2021 at 7:45:59 PM permalink
This is essentially a CSM - Rule #1

Premium Blackjack Pro is a variant of Blackjack with the following rules:

8 decks of cards are used. After each round, used cards are returned to the deck and the deck is shuffled.

Aces count as either 1 or 11, face cards count as 10 and number cards count at their face values.

The player may not split a Split hand.

Only one card is drawn to each Ace in a Split hand.

The player may double after splitting.

The Dealer will not automatically check for Blackjack, regardless of the value of the Dealer's first face-up card.

Ace and a 10-point card after a split are considered 21, and not Blackjack.

Blackjack pays 1.5 times the bet amount (3 to 2).

If the total value of the Player’s cards is closer to 21 than the Dealer's after the dealer has stopped taking cards, the player wins the bet amount (1 to 1).

If the total of the Player's cards is more than 21, the player's hand is “Bust” and the player automatically loses the bet for that hand.

If the Player and the Dealer have the same point total (17 to 21), neither of them wins and the player's bet is returned to the player in a “Push”.

The Dealer always draws to 16. The Dealer stands when the dealer's hand has a value of 17 or greater (including soft 17). The Dealer does not draw when the player is “Bust”.

Blackjack beats a score of 21.

-------------------------------------------------

And to me the "game objective"
GAME OBJECTIVE:
Premium Blackjack Pro is a variant of standard Blackjack that features the Perfect Pairs and 21+3 side games. This game allows you to play up to five hands of Blackjack at once, one after the other during game play. The objective is to accumulate cards to get a total of 21 or as close to 21 as possible, without going over 21. The value of a hand is the sum of the point counts of all the cards in the hand.

is always Suspicious and i have no clue why i think that - thank you for listening