Anyone using MGP's BJ CA

I used this software to calculate the EV of a game in Macau. Recently Sands introduced the 5 card Charlie half win bonus.
From Wizardofodds, this bonus worths 0.77%.
I used the software to calculate the EV without this bonus and the result is -0.16% which matches what I expected.
However, after adding the 5 card Charlie bonus the result is only +0.07%, which makes the bonus worth only 0.23%.
Could someone using this software verify it for me?

vulnerable,

Please post the complete set of rules.

Also, do you know the Wong's "Professional Blackjack" contains HiLo strategy tables for the optional 5-card half win game?

Dog Hand

Quote: DogHand

vulnerable,

Please post the complete set of rules.

Also, do you know the Wong's "Professional Blackjack" contains HiLo strategy tables for the optional 5-card half win game?

Dog Hand

6deck, S17, DOA, DAS, ES10, split A once, no hole card.
I have Wong's Basic Blackjack and it states that the optional 5card half win bonus worths 0.7%
Thanks a lot.

Quote: vulnerable

6deck, S17, DOA, DAS, ES10, split A once, no hole card.
I have Wong's Basic Blackjack and it states that the optional 5card half win bonus worths 0.7%
Thanks a lot.

vulnerable,

Is the "no hole card" European (or ENHC, meaning lose all unbusted non-BJ hands to a dealer natural) or one of the Australian variants?

Is Late Surrender available versus an Ace?

Dog Hand

Only original bet lost against dealer BJ
No surrender against ace.
Thanks.

vulnerable,

Ok, I ran the program twice. Without the 5-card half-win rule, the player's EV is -0.264%. With the rule, the player's Composition-Dependent EV is +0.510%, so the rule is worth +0.774% to the B.S. player. Note that with the rule, the player's Total-Dependent and 2-Card-Dependent EV's are +0.143% and +0.150%, respectively, so the improvement due to the CD strategy is very significant.

If you provide an e-mail address (perhaps by PM), I'll send the Excel output.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

As per the program's help documentation, I'm not convinced the bonuses work correctly in its calculations. I know in the past I've tried calculating Pontoon using it, and compared it to my own calculator. I could compare my calculation results with simulations, so I was sure my calculator gave the correct average return for the strategy it created, but it never matched the MGP's calculator. I can't remember if mine found a better or worse return.

Dog Hand,

Could you post the set up of the 5-card half-win rule ?

Quote: DogHand

vulnerable,

Ok, I ran the program twice. Without the 5-card half-win rule, the player's EV is -0.264%. With the rule, the player's Composition-Dependent EV is +0.510%, so the rule is worth +0.774% to the B.S. player. Note that with the rule, the player's Total-Dependent and 2-Card-Dependent EV's are +0.143% and +0.150%, respectively, so the improvement due to the CD strategy is very significant.

If you provide an e-mail address (perhaps by PM), I'll send the Excel output.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Additional info :-

1) No 5 card charlie half win vs dealer's upcard Ace
2) ENHC but OBO rule( similar to PEEK rule ??)

So house edge WITHOUT 5 card charlie is -0.163%. WITH 5 card charlie half win(and use correct BS), my simulation show that player edge = +0.44% ?

Please help to verify. Tq

Quote: 7up

Dog Hand,

Could you post the set up of the 5-card half-win rule ?

Hey, Uncola ;-)

To create the "5-card half win" bonus in MGP's CA program, click on the "Bonus Rules" tab and type the name, 5-card half win, in the Bonus Rule Name box. Set the other options as follows (some are the defaults):

Rule Based on Hand Total and Size: check
Rule Based on Hand Composition: uncheck
Hand Total: any
Hand Soft: Either
n-Cards: 5
Or More: check (by the way, I don't know if the bonus can be used for more than 5 cards: if not, then my results are slightly off, and naturally you would NOT check this box)
Payoff: 0.5 for General, 0 for Suited and Spades Bonus
Dealer BJ Payoff: 0.5, and check A up and T up
Dealer UC Payoff: 0's for General, Suited, and Spades Bonus, and leave UC Payoff box blank
Suited Bonus: uncheck
Hand Must Win: uncheck
Hand Continues: uncheck
Apply Pre-Split: check
Apply Post-Split: check

Finally, click on the "Add Bonus Rule" button, then scroll to the bottom of the "Bonus Rule Applied" list and click the checkbox for 5-card half win (which should be the last item on the list).

Here's a picture, if the above was unclear:



Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Quote: ssho88

Additional info :-

1) No 5 card charlie half win vs dealer's upcard Ace
2) ENHC but OBO rule( similar to PEEK rule ??)

So house edge WITHOUT 5 card charlie is -0.163%. WITH 5 card charlie half win(and use correct BS), my simulation show that player edge = +0.44% ?

Please help to verify. Tq

ssho88,

I got +0.40% with the rule as you specified, but my answer is slightly off because I selected "ENHC" but checked "Dealer checks under Ace": this means that on an A-up BJ, the player has no opportunity to take the half win (which is what you specified). However, on a 10-up BJ, the player loses ALL, not just OBO. Thus, my value for the EV is a bit too low.

I tried selecting "American Rules", but then the software does not allow me to specify that the dealer doesn't check under the Ten.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Here is the strategy for 4 cards:
P = Player. D = dealer

P12/13 v D 2 to 6 = Hit
P14 v D 2 to 4 =Hit***
***: against D 4, stand if a 7 (or less) is the highest card and Hit if an 8 (or more) is the highest card in the players' hand
All soft 4-card hands v D Everything (except Ace) = Hit^^^
^^^: including soft 21, even though this is obvious to most people i remember seeing a post on this site that someone stood (or was going to stand?) on a cruise boat casino, and they had a 4-card soft (or "unbustable"?) hand with this (or a similar rule 5-card charlie rule)

Play basic strategy: everything else.

Don't know if i missed anything, but i think this is right

Edit:

Do they let you hit a 4 - card 21? (some of the online casinos I play at with a similar charlie rule let you hit a soft 21, others force you to stand on soft 21)

Quote: DogHand

ssho88,

I got +0.40% with the rule as you specified, but my answer is slightly off because I selected "ENHC" but checked "Dealer checks under Ace": this means that on an A-up BJ, the player has no opportunity to take the half win (which is what you specified). However, on a 10-up BJ, the player loses ALL, not just OBO. Thus, my value for the EV is a bit too low.

I tried selecting "American Rules", but then the software does not allow me to specify that the dealer doesn't check under the Ten.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Once you set the 5 card half win rule in MGP, I think accept half win is mandatory in MGP when player have 5 or more cards, but please note that player will NOT accept half win(correct BS ) if player have 5 card 20(except 20 vs T !) or 21.


I think that's the reason why my ev is a bit higher compare to yours. Could you please verify it ? Tq

Quote: ksdjdj

Here is the strategy for 4 cards:
P = Player. D = dealer

P12/13 v D 2 to 6 = Hit
P14 v D 2 to 4 =Hit***
***: against D 4, stand if a 7 (or less) is the highest card and Hit if an 8 (or more) is the highest card in the players' hand...

P = player, D = dealer

Thanks to the previous reply.post i realised i omitted the "soft 14 - 20" deviations to basic strategy.

Here are the 4-card strategies for SOFT totals;
P 20 v D 10 = hit
P 14 to 19 v D 2 to 10 = hit
P 21 v D "anything" = stand
all other hands not mentioned in the above "quote" or in this post would use TD or CD basic strategy (whichever one you prefer ).

Note: i know that anyone with MGP's BJ CA, would be able to do this, but this is more to try and help the people who don't have the analyser.

Hopefully this time I haven't missed anything.

Quote: DogHand

Hey, Uncola ;-)

To create the "5-card half win" bonus in MGP's CA program, click on the "Bonus Rules" tab and type the name, 5-card half win, in the Bonus Rule Name box. Set the other options as follows (some are the defaults):

Rule Based on Hand Total and Size: check
Rule Based on Hand Composition: uncheck
Hand Total: any
Hand Soft: Either
n-Cards: 5
Or More: check (by the way, I don't know if the bonus can be used for more than 5 cards: if not, then my results are slightly off, and naturally you would NOT check this box)
Payoff: 0.5 for General, 0 for Suited and Spades Bonus
Dealer BJ Payoff: 0.5, and check A up and T up
Dealer UC Payoff: 0's for General, Suited, and Spades Bonus, and leave UC Payoff box blank
Suited Bonus: uncheck
Hand Must Win: uncheck
Hand Continues: uncheck
Apply Pre-Split: check
Apply Post-Split: check

Finally, click on the "Add Bonus Rule" button, then scroll to the bottom of the "Bonus Rule Applied" list and click the checkbox for 5-card half win (which should be the last item on the list).

Here's a picture, if the above was unclear:


Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Dog Hand,

Thanks for the rule settings posted. I got the same 0.510% as yours.
The rules in the casino have a little different from the these MGP settings.
But there is already no more 5-card rule in Macau, after the casino lossing several millions HKD in two weeks..by 99 CC's rushing-in from Asia only.
And thanks for you story about uncola, I did not know that.

7up