European BJ with a twist

Hi everyone!

I’m a newbie to the site, but so far find the material brilliant, especially the Wizard’s tools. I have a few questions I was hoping to get help with about playing European blackjack with the following rules:

* 6 decks with CSM
* BJ pays 3:2
* No hole card (player loses total bet, including after doubling or splitting, if dealer has blackjack)
* S17
* RSA/split aces receive 1 card only
* 21 after splitting aces not BJ
* Double only on 9, 10 or 11
* DAS
* No surrender

The interesting twist is that there is a single joker added to the shoe. The joker has no value itself, but if a player ends up being dealt one, the regular payout is doubled.

If a hand with a joker is split, the player decides which of the two hands the joker will be assigned to before additional cards are dealt.

I am familiar with the Wizard’s standard basic strategy chart for European BJ, but was wondering if having a joker changes the optimal play, particularly in the following situations:

* 11 v 10 or A (should double?)
* Split A’s v A?
* Split 8’s v 10 or A?

There is also an unusual side bet that I have not found discussed anywhere. If a player’s first card matches the dealer’s first card (the suit does not matter) and the player wins or pushes the hand, the player wins 22 times his bet. If at the same time the player also receives a joker as one of his first two cards, the payout is 400 times. What is the house edge for this side bet?

Thanks in advance!

Something seems amiss in that side bet. 22 times the bet if dealer has 7 and I have 7? That is about 13:1 odds for a payout of 22Xs? Joker is 1 in 312 cards but boosts that to 400Xs?

Where is this casino? Either I am missing the math big time or I need to make that table my office.

Quote: GQ21

If a player’s first card matches the dealer’s first card (the suit does not matter) and the player wins or pushes the hand, the player wins 22 times his bet.

22-1 sounds high.

I believe in the Match The Dealer side bet, an unsuited match only pays 4-1. The difference being, with that bet you don’t have to win or push the hand.

Quote: AZDuffman

Something seems amiss in that side bet. 22 times the bet if dealer has 7 and I have 7? That is about 13:1 odds for a payout of 22Xs? Joker is 1 in 312 cards but boosts that to 400Xs?

Where is this casino? Either I am missing the math big time or I need to make that table my office.

First you have to match, then you have to win or push.

Quote: unJon

First you have to match, then you have to win or push.

But you’re not paying anything extra to get this bonus. It’s not like a side bet where you have to risk something.

Just rough estimate, if I match the dealer 1 out of 13 times, and I win or push half of those, then about 4% of the time I’m getting paid 22x my bet.

Quote: michael99000

22-1 sounds high.

I believe in the Match The Dealer side bet, an unsuited match only pays 4-1. The difference being, with that bet you don’t have to win or push the hand.

I don't think it's high. But it's not too bad for a sidebet, either, IMO.

Summarized Net Win in Blackjack
EVENT PROBABILITY
Win 42.43%
Push 8.48%
Loss 49.09%

Win or push 50.91%

Chance of matching rank 1/13 or 7.69%

So you can expect to win this bet 3.92% of the time. True odds would pay 25.54:1 . They're paying 22:1.

I'm not counting the Joker because it's a bit beyond my computational powers at the moment. So not offering a HE. I would swag the Joker ( 1 card in 313) paying 400:1 might add .5% to the player at most - seems like a very rare event.

Quote: michael99000

But you’re not paying anything extra to get this bonus. It’s not like a side bet where you have to risk something.

Just rough estimate, if I match the dealer 1 out of 13 times, and I win or push half of those, then about 4% of the time I’m getting paid 22x my bet.

OP says it’s a side bet. The joker thing is the non side bet.

Quote: unJon

OP says it’s a side bet. The joker thing is the non side bet.

Ok my fault. I thought both were like the joker

Quote: unJon

First you have to match, then you have to win or push.

I knew I missed something there.

It still seems more fin than that in-between bet.

Great, thanks for the helpful analysis.

As far as basic strategy, I take it that having the joker with the double payout would not change the optimal double/split decision, right?

It depends on the exact rules - for instance if you had £5 and doubled you would normally win £10 - so would you win £20?

If so I'm guessing you would want to double more often, for instance consider a 12 vs 6. (However I assume you're only allowed to double 9-11) but academically you would want to double : It's marginal whether you hit or stand but suppose they offered you £10 if you won and lost £5 if you lost, then why not double as your chances exceed 33%. Thus I suspect you double more 9-11s than usual. Similarly you might make some unusual splits to make the hand with the joker more likely to win (e.g. 8s vs 10, 3s vs 8).

As to the pair bet, I can think that you'd tend to hit more often and/or double less. for instance hitting 16 vs 10 is a no-brainer as you have a good chance of getting a tie if you get 20, which is a win for the side bet but the BlackJack strategy is only based on a standoff.