heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
• Posts: 1758
September 25th, 2018 at 11:23:38 AM permalink
I think i have a misconception about basic strategy that i would like to clarify.

When playing normally, people always ask, "What is the best move to play here?" if they are not familiar with basic strategy.

But telling someone what move to make is wrong in my opinion. I end up always telling them to "Go with their gut".

The reason I do this is, in my opinion, THAT BASIC STRATEGY CHARTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH CARD COUNTING and you should do what you feel is right at the moment, as the situations presented in the basic strategy charts are for when the count is within a specific range, so card counters can act accordingly. <------ that is what i think is a misconception. is this correct? is basic strategy mainly used in conjunction with card counting or is it no matter what i should play that way because of MATH?
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 13347
September 25th, 2018 at 11:58:15 AM permalink
I'm reasonably certain that math is fairly universal. Not sure why it matters if one is counting cards or sheep. Same goes for someone not counting them as well.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
• Posts: 6392
September 25th, 2018 at 12:10:44 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I think i have a misconception about basic strategy that i would like to clarify.

When playing normally, people always ask, "What is the best move to play here?" if they are not familiar with basic strategy.

But telling someone what move to make is wrong in my opinion. I end up always telling them to "Go with their gut".

The reason I do this is, in my opinion, THAT BASIC STRATEGY CHARTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH CARD COUNTING and you should do what you feel is right at the moment, as the situations presented in the basic strategy charts are for when the count is within a specific range, so card counters can act accordingly. <------ that is what i think is a misconception. is this correct? is basic strategy mainly used in conjunction with card counting or is it no matter what i should play that way because of MATH?

Basic strategy is the mathematically absolutely correct (best) way to play every hand on the precondition that you don't know the count. Period. Basic strategy cards are not supposed to be used in conjunction with card counting. However, they remind us of the best starting strategy. Card counting simply indicates when the player should play different to basic strategy, because the count dictates that basic strategy does not apply.

For example. If the count is unknown, it is mathematically correct to NOT take insurance. Ever. But if the count of tens is such that the shoe is 10 rich ( beyond 1/3 of the count of cards remaining ) then you should always take insurance.

If someone asks you how to play a hand... Plead ignorance or lend him your BS card without comment. There is little downside and much downside in giving a strategy answer,
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
BlackjackGuy123
Joined: Jul 27, 2017
• Posts: 164
September 25th, 2018 at 2:46:44 PM permalink
basic strategy informs you what decisions will maximize expectation given a particular set of rules, and is the best way to make your choices absent specific knowledge about the composition of a deck (index plays based on the count)
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
• Posts: 2382
September 25th, 2018 at 3:48:30 PM permalink
“Basic” strategy generally implies the optimal strategy with a completely neutral deck, that would usually only be the first hand. Any other strategy that is dependent on more information would not be considered “basic.”

Whenever someone asks for advice I either ignore them or say “it’s not my bet.”
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
• Posts: 4539
October 1st, 2018 at 6:46:36 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

THAT BASIC STRATEGY CHARTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH CARD COUNTING

Card counting determines the bet.

Basic strategy remains in effect at all times. (If you are an expert counter there might be rare instances where you will deviate from basic strategy due to the count, but these are rare and not even necessary.)

In general: you don't sit there and debate over whether or not to hit a hard 16 if the dealer has a ten up, you just hit it, always. This is why I avoid the small stakes tables, those are where the ones who don't know how to play mess up the deck with inconsistent hit/stand choices. The big boys are generally going to stick to playing right.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
• Posts: 3469
October 1st, 2018 at 8:24:13 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Card counting determines the bet.

Basic strategy remains in effect at all times. (If you are an expert counter there might be rare instances where you will deviate from basic strategy due to the count, but these are rare and not even necessary.)

In general: you don't sit there and debate over whether or not to hit a hard 16 if the dealer has a ten up, you just hit it, always. This is why I avoid the small stakes tables, those are where the ones who don't know how to play mess up the deck with inconsistent hit/stand choices. The big boys are generally going to stick to playing right.

Basic Strategy is the correct play if the count is zero. The example you site about hitting a 16 into a T is actually the most likely one to change, since you should stand if the count is positive. And since your bet increases when the count gets positive, this and other deviations from basic strategy can matter a lot (especially in single and double deck games).

Also, your idea that people playing differently messes up the shoe is superstition and not correct.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
• Posts: 2382
October 1st, 2018 at 8:34:06 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

In general: you don't sit there and debate over whether or not to hit a hard 16 if the dealer has a ten up, you just hit it, always.

A lot of the best blackjack players would argue it is the exact opposite

Quote: MDawg

This is why I avoid the small stakes tables, those are where the ones who don't know how to play mess up the deck with inconsistent hit/stand choices. The big boys are generally going to stick to playing right.

Messing up the deck is just as likely to help you win money as it is to cause you to lose money
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 13347
October 1st, 2018 at 8:49:51 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Card counting determines the bet.

Basic strategy remains in effect at all times. (If you are an expert counter there might be rare instances where you will deviate from basic strategy due to the count, but these are rare and not even necessary.)

In general: you don't sit there and debate over whether or not to hit a hard 16 if the dealer has a ten up, you just hit it, always. This is why I avoid the small stakes tables, those are where the ones who don't know how to play mess up the deck with inconsistent hit/stand choices. The big boys are generally going to stick to playing right.

You won't believe it but everything you wrote is wrong.
1) Some counts have hundreds of deviations from basic strategy. A good player knows most of the 18 most common.
2) You never debate. No matter what you system you use, there is one best decision.
3) There is no sacred flow of the cards. Nothing anyone does effects your long term game.
4) Any card anyone takes has no effect on your card in the long run.
5) Never assume a \$25 player is better than a \$5 player. Playing at higher stakes can get you better rules but don't expect better players.
Reading a book called " The Blackjack Zone" will greatly improve your understanding of the game. Best of luck, this can be a great place.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Venthus
Joined: Dec 10, 2012